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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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General book discussion thread. Heavy spoiler warning.
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Hi , I would like to invite everyone to discuss theories etc. here.

Things like , who is the hooded man?

Who is Cold hands.

What did THoTU visions mean  and so on and so on .



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Last night I read the Bran chapter where Meera tells him the story of the Laughing Knight. So it fit in quite well with the Lyanna and Rhaegar music video.
I am stumped as to who the Knight is. Most likely it's Howland Reed, but then how did he learn how to joust? IF the Old Gods helped him, why not also help Robb or Ned. How did his voice get that booming?
Was it Lyanna perhaps? Voice again?
Ned and Brandon are too big I believe.
Was it Benjen? Also very likely. But no clear candidate. But fascninating story nonetheless.
"Are you sure your father never told you this story?" Jojen asked again.

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Hmm I took it to be Lyanna... I may have to revue but , when he goes looking for the Laughing Knight , there's only the shield ... I think maybe that was there Night of nights , if you know what i mean .... nine months later.... Ahem.

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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Well not too sure who you are speaking about. If Lyanna, well that's not to soon before Rhaegar "kidnapped" her. Ashara Dayne was raped that night by Brandon Stark and later gave brith to a stillborn.
If it was Lyanna, did she indeed know how to joust? It is mentioned she was a skilled rider at one point? How the heck did a girl do the huge booming voice? I know she chased the other squires away with a tourney sword, but she had the element of surprise, they were unarmed and they would never strike a highborn lady.

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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I'm going to have to re read , I don't remember the booming voice bit, Book and chapter please? :)

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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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ASOS Bran page 330 in mine. Right after the chapter where Dany sees the Unsullied for the first time.

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Hmmm well booming just means loud ... so I stick with my Lyanna theory on that one ... I believe the Prince did find her and that is why she was crowned ... and why the blue rose is so significant to her..

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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We also know Lyanna is a wild Arya type and we could totally imagine Arya doing something like that.

Also Bran's tree dreams when he thinks he sees, himself and Arya fighting is clearly Lyanna and she was better than her brother...

She was a compedant horse rider ...

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Priestess of R'hllor
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The Knight of the Laughing Tree has to be Lyanna, Benjen was too young and there is nothing in the text that would point to Brandon. Plus, if it was Brandon, why the secrecy? It also can't be Howland Reed, as Aegon suggested, because it was Howland Reed's honor the Knight was defending, aaand because his/her shield had a weirwood on it - thus heavily implying the Starks (or another northern house at the very least).

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Priestess of R'hllor
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Also, to continue my Coldhands is not Benjen theory (not mine per se, mind you) from another thread, there is one detail I haven't found anywhere else so far.  If I remember correctly Benjen has the Stark look, right? Grey eyes? Coldhands has dark eyes. I was re-reading ADWD, Bran I just last night and at one point Bran sees Coldhands and his raven gazing at the fire, and mentions "four black eyes" (or two pairs of dark eyes, something along those lines).



-- Edited by Macha on Thursday 30th of August 2012 03:14:52 PM

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Also the child of the forest says " that one is very old " not a direct quote but you get my drift....

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Mistress of the Rookery
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Oh my, I don´t remember any hooded man. I suck at theories. I don´t even know why I think Coldhands is Benjen. Explain it to me please



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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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The hooded man? Is the person in Theon's chapter (Reek) at winterfell... he's wandering around and a man come towards him....asks how come he's still alive ....



-- Edited by YvyB on Thursday 30th of August 2012 04:55:43 PM

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Priestess of R'hllor
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andrea - You think Coldhands is Benjen because he used to be a Black Brother, and Benjen is still missing in action.smile



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Mistress of the Rookery
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Macha wrote:

andrea - You think Coldhands is Benjen because he used to be a Black Brother, and Benjen is still missing in action.smile


 that´s all I got? Who is he then? you know?



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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No one knows, Benjen is the closest bet. The tree guy Bran meets is easy though. How many eyes does Bloodraven have?

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Mistress of the Rookery
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i´m such a tool, is that a real question? Bloodraven has more than one eye? please kill me. I refuse to read the books again



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Have you read the Dunk and Egg Novellas? That wasn't a real question, just a refference to the character. Answer is a thousand and one.

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Mistress of the Rookery
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maybe I did? I think I did.



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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To quote RObert Baratheon, "I'd think you'd remember."

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Priestess of R'hllor
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Benjen is NOT the closest bet, I will battle this to the death.

andrea, here is my answer from another thread.

From what I remember he wears a scarf and he's always hooded, however one might expect for Bran to recognize his uncle's voice. And why would Benjen keep him in the dark? It doesn't make sense. I guess one could argue Bloodraven is controlling Coldhands, and I think that might be true to a certain degree, but Coldhands doesn't appear to be a wight, in fact he seems fully conscious. And would Benjen know the secret passage under the Nightfort? That place was abandoned a long time ago (wiki says 200 years). And why would Coldhands be unable to pass through the Black Gate, if Sam can? Just because he's dead? We already knew that, and GRRM gave no explanation as to why he wasn't allowed. Who would have known the Nightfort so well yet be banned from passing South of the wall through the Black gate, and was killed a long time ago? Answer - the Night's King (GRRM even writes in one of Bran's chapters that his very name was forbidden). But have no fears, Benjen has to be alive. If he was dead, GRRM would have used his death somehow, but up to this point it serves no purpose, if you think about it. Also, there were several prophetic dreams in which the dead of next-to-be-dead Starks appear, and he wasn't among them.
Plus the detail that Yvyb mentioned earlier - one of the children of the forest tells Bran that Coldhands was killed a long time ago. Pluus the small detail that Summer doesn't like him, and that Coldhans always adresses Bran with "Brandon" (a tad less intimate, I think).

This is the Night's King entry from the wiki:
"According to legend, the Night's King lived during the Age of Heroes, not long after the Wall was complete. He was a fearless warrior, who was named the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Later he fell in love with a woman "with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars", he chased her and loved her though "her skin was cold as ice", and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.[1] (Her description matches that of the Others.)
He brought her back to the Nightfort and after the unholy union, he declared himself king and her his queen, and ruled the Nightfort as his own castle for thirteen years. During the dark years of his reign, horrific atrocities were committed, of which tales are still told in the North. It was not until his own brother, the King in the North, and Joramun, the King-Beyond-the-Wall, joined forces that the Night's King was brought down and the Night's Watch freed. After his fall, when it was discovered that he had been sacrificing to the Others (possibly in similar way to Craster), all records of him were destroyed and his very name was forbidden.[1] It is likely this led the lords of the North to forbid the Night's Watch to construct walls at their keeps, ensuring the keeps would always be accessible from the south."

Also, quite a coincidence that Bran recalls his story in ASoS, the same book that introduces Coldhans. Case closed. :)



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Mistress of the Rookery
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that´s pretty convincing Macha. He wears a scarf? like hiding a scar?



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Wait where is his story told again? I can't remember reading about this guy.

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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

Wait where is his story told again? I can't remember reading about this guy.


 Footer says ASoS; Chapter 56 (Bran) 



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Priestess of R'hllor
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He wears a scarf that covers the lower half of his face and muffles his voice.
I also think that the scarf might hide a scar from a knife or a sword (seeing how Lady Stoneheart can speak) and originally had a theory that the man Bran sees as being sacrificed in one of his weirwood time-travels might be the Night's King but I now think that's pretty unlikely. That seemed more of a sacrifice than an execution. Then again, I'm not sure that if he had his head removed, he'd still be able to speak. From here on, it's just wild speculation on my part, but the Night's King theory makes sense to me because of his connection to the Nightfort and the secret passage under the Wall there.


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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Well it's a good thing I'm re-reading ASOS then.

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Priestess of R'hllor
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Aegon, this is one of Old Nan's stories. It ends quite interestingly with something like "some say he was a Flint, a Bolton etc. Perhaps he was a Stark and his name was Brandon." There are some who speculate that this goes neatly with one of his lines in ADwD, when Branmcalls him a monster, and he answeres "Your monster, Brandon Stark". Some take it that he was referring to himself then, as in introducing himself all over again. I don't know what to say about that, but If I'm to wildly speculate, I think it might be a chance for the Night's King to be one of the two Brandon Starks we know of so far - Bran the Builder or Brandon can't-recall-his-name that vanished in a voyage while at Sea and his body was never found.

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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Brandon the SHipwright

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YvyB wrote:

Also the child of the forest says " that one is very old " not a direct quote but you get my drift....


         I remember that line and the beginnings of understanding some features of their residence and 

         inhabitants later. Methinks TWOW will give us more to clarify certain aspects. It's not like he'd

          leave us dangling for years, right ? RIGHT (?) ! 

         Coldhands likely is essential to the story and possibly Bloodraven or a Brother from the Wall.



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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

ASOS Bran page 330 in mine. Right after the chapter where Dany sees the Unsullied for the first time.


           Thanks.



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Macha wrote:

Benjen is NOT the closest bet, I will battle this to the death.

andrea, here is my answer from another thread.

From what I remember he wears a scarf and he's always hooded, however one might expect for Bran to recognize his uncle's voice. And why would Benjen keep him in the dark? It doesn't make sense. I guess one could argue Bloodraven is controlling Coldhands, and I think that might be true to a certain degree, but Coldhands doesn't appear to be a wight, in fact he seems fully conscious. And would Benjen know the secret passage under the Nightfort? That place was abandoned a long time ago (wiki says 200 years). And why would Coldhands be unable to pass through the Black Gate, if Sam can? Just because he's dead? We already knew that, and GRRM gave no explanation as to why he wasn't allowed. Who would have known the Nightfort so well yet be banned from passing South of the wall through the Black gate, and was killed a long time ago? Answer - the Night's King (GRRM even writes in one of Bran's chapters that his very name was forbidden). But have no fears, Benjen has to be alive. If he was dead, GRRM would have used his death somehow, but up to this point it serves no purpose, if you think about it. Also, there were several prophetic dreams in which the dead of next-to-be-dead Starks appear, and he wasn't among them.
Plus the detail that Yvyb mentioned earlier - one of the children of the forest tells Bran that Coldhands was killed a long time ago. Pluus the small detail that Summer doesn't like him, and that Coldhans always adresses Bran with "Brandon" (a tad less intimate, I think).

This is the Night's King entry from the wiki:
"According to legend, the Night's King lived during the Age of Heroes, not long after the Wall was complete. He was a fearless warrior, who was named the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Later he fell in love with a woman "with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars", he chased her and loved her though "her skin was cold as ice", and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.[1] (Her description matches that of the Others.)
He brought her back to the Nightfort and after the unholy union, he declared himself king and her his queen, and ruled the Nightfort as his own castle for thirteen years. During the dark years of his reign, horrific atrocities were committed, of which tales are still told in the North. It was not until his own brother, the King in the North, and Joramun, the King-Beyond-the-Wall, joined forces that the Night's King was brought down and the Night's Watch freed. After his fall, when it was discovered that he had been sacrificing to the Others (possibly in similar way to Craster), all records of him were destroyed and his very name was forbidden.[1] It is likely this led the lords of the North to forbid the Night's Watch to construct walls at their keeps, ensuring the keeps would always be accessible from the south."

Also, quite a coincidence that Bran recalls his story in ASoS, the same book that introduces Coldhans. Case closed. :)


           I need to read thru this again  although I recall some. I do recall the Wall to be built with the help of the COTF

          to keep out the White Walkers. Sammwell mentioned to Bran that the place is also heavily warded with spells 

          but responds to oathtakers of the Brotherhood. I would take that to include life forms which Coldhands is not.



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YvyB wrote:

The hooded man? Is the person in Theon's chapter (Reek) at winterfell... he's wandering around and a man come towards him....asks how come he's still alive ....



-- Edited by YvyB on Thursday 30th of August 2012 04:55:43 PM


         I was so amazed that the banker from Braavos got through to Winterfell  that I momentarily dismissed this. 



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Knight
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A woman is curious if they're going to "go there" with Yara and one of her sailors as they did in the books. Will she use her feminine wiles at all or not? Inquiring minds want to know. The Coldhands mystery is definitely an interesting one, can't wait till we find out who he really is/was.



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Well Ghema Whellan does have a certain something something to her, so I'm hoping yes.

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Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
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Danaerys I chapter / ASoS
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Now I've re-read this chapter. Jorah Mormont reminds Danaerys that "The Dragon has Three Heads" and there's no reason why she shouldn't have more than one husband? 

Does anyone think that it's possible that Danaerys, should she reclaim the throne, not have two consorts?  Aegon and Jon? 



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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Aegon in my mind is the fake dragon that Dany " slayer of lies" will reveal...

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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Gosh I hope not, him actually being able to rule. Mayhaps he may just rule even though he is a fake. If he is how though? Maelys was the last Blackfyre and had no kids and Aegon definetly has Targeryen blood in him. And no I really hope Dany doesn't have two consorts, I'm hoping she dies.

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Many theories out there , He's Illyrios, (looks like him as a child ) also had a Targ looking lady friend...
He's a Targ Bastard, Swapped at birth.. or just simply a Targ looking individual... there's plenty of them out there....


Also if he isn't fake dragon ... Then who is? :)

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Priestess of R'hllor
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I'm also pretty convinced Aegon is a fake, though I think he truly believes he is a Targ. Plus, we can't know if he's competent or not. Lots of people seem competent until coming to power.

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Also in that vision are the people not cheering? So he may get there , before she ousts him...

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Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
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Okay, now I'm reading about a theory that Darkstar is the real Aegon. Maybe i shouldn't read threads at Westeros.org

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Cary Storm wrote:

Okay, now I'm reading about a theory that Darkstar is the real Aegon. Maybe i shouldn't read threads at Westeros.org


Ha ha ! I did all that before  I read the books confuse Not good ...



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Priestess of R'hllor
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Isn't Darkstar older than Aegon?

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Macha wrote:

Isn't Darkstar older than Aegon?


 Hmm I think so.



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Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
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Yes, I think they tend to go off on fantastic tangents over there.

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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My theory on Jorah is he will ride a Dragon, as will Tyrion.


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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Well his training and upbringing along with the belief that ruling is his duty not his right makes me believe he'd do a good job. He's had the best preparation of any of the contenders.

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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But wouldn't be just like GRRM to bump him off as soon as he got there ?

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Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
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YvyB wrote:

My theory on Jorah is he will ride a Dragon, as will Tyrion.


 No... Jon and a someone with confirmed dragon-blood... Stannis. 



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Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
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Actually, any of Robert's bastards are Targaryon descendants. Gendry?

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