Members Login
 

Topic: General book discussion thread. Heavy spoiler warning.

Post Info
Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
RE: General book discussion thread. Heavy spoiler warning.
Permalink  
 

Now that would have been a serious deviation from the books in terms of character motivation - Jeyne was never part of the plot, it becomes obvious when you read the chapter from AFfC when Jaime takes Riverrun and meets with Jeyne and her mother.

__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
Status: Offline
Posts: 2391
Date:
Permalink  
 
Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

The second part about the woman who was a fish is Catelyn Tully being ressurected by Thoros as Lady Stoneheart.

So GRRM says Talisa isn't Jeyne Westerling or the daugther of a Lannister Bannerman, well there goes all the theories about Tywin sending her to rip the Frey Stark alliance apart.


I have been working my own theories about Talisa out. But that's another thread. 



__________________

"There's no cure for being a cunt."  Bronn
"King Stannis is my god."  Davos
"Who the fuck is Jon Snow?"  Locke

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
I'm not understanding why? what? of the Talisa thing at all... I mean it's important right? hmmmm.

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Had a little flick through GoT today, haven't brought myself to do a full re read , I always have one in my bag and just dip in and out , anyhoo, Bran's first sort of vision dream thing as he was falling/flying with the three eyed crow...

.... a frozen wasteland where jagged blue-white spires of ice waited to embrace him.They flew at him like spears.He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points.....

is this merely the White Walkers and Weights? Or any other ideas guys ?










-

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
this too, " because she was a whore or an adulteress, fool.Something dark and dishonorable, or else why was Lord Eddard too ashamed to speak of her " He is more upset about a mother he doesn't know than a "mother" who doesn't care .

Cat always get's the hate over mental cruelty of Jon... Ahem it takes two parents to mess up a child... no wait tho' he's not messed up. He a perfectly decent chap. So can we stop now please?

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
Permalink  
 
Oh I love that sequence, Yvyb. Can't remember it word by word, but if it's blue-white that might be just the WW. If it's just white it could be a reference to the weirwoods although that usually comes in a pair with red/blood.

Dunno, there's something about those weirwoods. Doesn't anyone find the chromatic connection between weirwoods, Bloodraven and Ghost interesting?

Bloodraven: An albino, Brynden had milk white skin, long white hair, and red eyes. He had a red birthmark that extended from his throat up to his right cheek
Weirwoods: The five-pointed leaves and the sap of weirwoods are blood-red, while the bark and wood are white.
Ghost: albino with red eyes.


__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Yeah I've noticed those similarities as well , I think Jon even thinks it about Ghost and the tree at one point ... which makes me think George wanted us to note it too.

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Braavosi Water Dancer
Status: Offline
Posts: 1815
Date:
Permalink  
 
Macha wrote:

Speaking of Bloodraven, I have yet to re-read Bran's chapters in the cave, but isn't it interesting how Brynden, who was once a Targaryen loyalist, warns Bran about dragons, as if they're something to be feared? I guess we'll know more about where his allegiance lies once we find out why exactly was he imprisoned before being sent to the Wall, but I'm in the "Bloodraven is no good" camp, especially where Bran is concerned. First, I can't figure out the connection between the CoTF and the Others, but I'm not so sure they're opposed to one another at this point. Second, I feel that Bloodraven turned against the Targaryens and the realm, and that he seeks some sort of vengeance. Sure, he could disguise it as salvation, but that's extremely relative. What is he doing in that cave, prolonging his life for so long? From what we can tell, he appeared in the form of the Three Eyed Crow not only in Bran's dreams, but in Jojen's (when he nearly died of greywater fever) and Euron's (can't remember the exact moment, but he mentions this in AFfC) as well. Any why is it the Crow so adamant in not letting Bran think about Jaime and his fall? As horrible as that was to remember, that's part of his life now, his identity. He should be encouraged to accept it, not flee from it. What Bloodraven is offering him is a life lived in darkness, far from his friends and family, and for what? Saving humanity? I don't buy that. One man's salvation often is another man's destruction. To put it bluntly, I think Bloodraven really wants someone to take his place in that cave, but I'm not so sure he'll die peacefully after that, I think he has a few plans of his own. 


My thoughts look even more clear when I read them with your words on them. I suscribe. smile

Now this:

Macha wrote:
Dunno, there's something about those weirwoods. Doesn't anyone find the chromatic connection between weirwoods, Bloodraven and Ghost interesting?

Bloodraven: An albino, Brynden had milk white skin, long white hair, and red eyes. He had a red birthmark that extended from his throat up to his right cheek
Weirwoods: The five-pointed leaves and the sap of weirwoods are blood-red, while the bark and wood are white.
Ghost: albino with red eyes.

 I missed that when I read it, but it seems too much of a coincidence for a world so heavy with "inheritance" and colour cues. At the very least it probably implies a heavy connection to the old gods, a more suitable vehicle for that type of "old magic" mayhaps.





__________________

“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”

― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.

 
 

 

Braavosi Water Dancer
Status: Offline
Posts: 1815
Date:
Permalink  
 
Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

Well his training and upbringing along with the belief that ruling is his duty not his right makes me believe he'd do a good job. He's had the best preparation of any of the contenders.


I don't know... Prophecies aside, I always had the feeling he was there to prove a point about power. What makes a good ruler is a question that has been ongoing and central to the story. We have so far seen example of several things that, while an asset to a ruler, don't make him/her a good one per se, such as prowess in battle; an honest, honourable heart; desire to bring people all the things you know it's good for them (such as freedom); ...I think he's there to prove you cannot manufacture/engineer one. I feel that'd be Vary's folly.

 



__________________

“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”

― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.

 
 

 

Children Of The Forest VP
Status: Offline
Posts: 759
Date:
Permalink  
 
YvyB wrote:

Yeah I've noticed those similarities as well , I think Jon even thinks it about Ghost and the tree at one point ... which makes me think George wanted us to note it too.


 That man is Diabolical. Must E-X-T-E-R-M-I-N-A-T-E  .



__________________

" None is so blind as those who will not see  "

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Here's a good one ..... What POV if you could have any would you want in Winds... I would like Howland Reed ... get to the bottom of that dam Tower of Joy!

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
Status: Offline
Posts: 2648
Date:
Permalink  
 
YvyB wrote:

Here's a good one ..... What POV if you could have any would you want in Winds... I would like Howland Reed ... get to the bottom of that dam Tower of Joy!


 Yes, hurry up Reed! sprint.gif



__________________

Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 

Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
Permalink  
 
Tir Airgid wrote:
I think he's there to prove you cannot manufacture/engineer one. I feel that'd be Vary's folly.

  Interesting perspective, I agree wholeheartedly. Plus, if you take a step back and look at the series, he's just appeared out of nowhere, with no prior hints. I feel the story is too advanced at this point for him to be a serious contender to the throne. I'm going to stick with my half-theory, that if there's an Iron throne at the end of the series, the one sitting on it would fit in the "unlikely pick/ bad person that would make a good king" category. Half-theory because I can't decide on a name to go with that just yet. 

YvyB, I think GRRM mentioned that no new POVs will be introduced, except for epilogues or prologues. However, I'm dying for a Benjen Stark POV, just to know what he's been up to, grrr.

I think Jojen would have been great as a PoV character....before being turned to weirwood paste and eaten.



__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

Braavosi Water Dancer
Status: Offline
Posts: 1815
Date:
Permalink  
 
Macha wrote:
I feel the story is too advanced at this point for him to be a serious contender to the throne. I'm going to stick with my half-theory, that if there's an Iron throne at the end of the series, the one sitting on it would fit in the "unlikely pick/ bad person that would make a good king" category. Half-theory because I can't decide on a name to go with that just yet.

I'm with you there. And like you said, if we take a step back and look at it from a writer's perspective with the information we got, I think whoever is intended to be on the throne by the end (if there still is a throne) would be someone introduced to us within the first book and a half or so.



-- Edited by Tir Airgid on Saturday 8th of September 2012 06:56:32 AM

__________________

“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”

― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.

 
 

 

High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
Status: Offline
Posts: 1399
Date:
Permalink  
 
Yes no new POV characters I'm afraid, I would love for someone to actually go to Greywater watch and meet Howland. Maybe Arya.

__________________

AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport. 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
YvyB wrote:

Here's a good one ..... What POV if you could have any would you want in Winds... I would like Howland Reed ... get to the bottom of that dam Tower of Joy!


 I know there's no new ones... I said if you could? It's a game ... Hence my suggestion Howland....



__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
Status: Offline
Posts: 2648
Date:
Permalink  
 
Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

Yes no new POV characters I'm afraid, I would love for someone to actually go to Greywater watch and meet Howland. Maybe Arya.


Aegon, would you feature Brandon Stark Sr..? Didn't he rape some girl and she kills herself? Nice.  Would like to know more about him.  Just my  twocents.gif worth.



-- Edited by Lyanna Stark on Sunday 9th of September 2012 09:52:13 PM

__________________

Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 

High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
Status: Offline
Posts: 1399
Date:
Permalink  
 
Ashara Dayne, his brother's crush. Made a mention of her in the Selmy piece.

__________________

AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport. 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
I think that is just speculation?...

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Aegon ? what makes you think Brandon raped Ashara? Do you have a quote ?

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
Status: Offline
Posts: 1399
Date:
Permalink  
 
Um I can't quite remember, but it was something Barristan said in ADWD that put quite a dark spin on the character. She lost the baby and her brother in quite a short time and jumped from the castle tower.

__________________

AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport. 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
I'm going to look it up as I have nothing but time today ... flat out in pain :(
But I've a feeling it was non specific ... also we don't know Ashara died... we just know she jumped out of a window ... We also have a good looking Septon who had had a baby and was looking after a certain name sake ... good swimmer she was ...( I sounded like Joda there !).... I'll get back to you when I've found what I'm trying to say :p

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
Status: Offline
Posts: 1399
Date:
Permalink  
 
Ah yes I remember Septa Lemore, must say those were the Tyrion chapters I most enjoyed in ADWD. I forgot she might be Ashara Dayne.

__________________

AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport. 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 

There is also a theory that Aegon is in fact her child and her and Elia swaped babies as Elia's died.... then when Varys needed a carer ... she jumped (!) at the chance ... hmmm... oh I love a good theory !
Not fathered by Brandon in this scenario of course ... that being Aerysblankstare



-- Edited by YvyB on Monday 10th of September 2012 06:43:43 AM

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Braavosi Water Dancer
Status: Offline
Posts: 1815
Date:
Permalink  
 
YvyB wrote:

I'm going to look it up as I have nothing but time today ... flat out in pain :(
But I've a feeling it was non specific ... also we don't know Ashara died... we just know she jumped out of a window ... We also have a good looking Septon who had had a baby and was looking after a certain name sake ... good swimmer she was ...( I sounded like Joda there !).... I'll get back to you when I've found what I'm trying to say :p


 Me likes what yousa trying to say. :P



__________________

“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”

― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.

 
 

 

Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
Status: Offline
Posts: 2648
Date:
Permalink  
 
YvyB wrote:

There is also a theory that Aegon is in fact her child and her and Elia swaped babies as Elia's died.... then when Varys needed a carer ... she jumped (!) at the chance ... hmmm... oh I love a good theory !
Not fathered by Brandon in this scenario of course ... that being Aerysblankstare



-- Edited by YvyB on Monday 10th of September 2012 06:43:43 AM


 Oh, wow, I am so cornfused! confused.gif Aegon, please do a thesis on Brandon Stark, Sr., so I can sort this out in my own mind.  I would rather have you do the research and writing than myself, of course!



__________________

Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 

High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
Status: Offline
Posts: 1399
Date:
Permalink  
 
Perhaps I will once I reach ADWD again. I'm right up to the RW with my re-reading.

__________________

AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport. 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Ok , So Facts. We know Aerys was at Harrenhal .
We know Ashara was dishonored by " a man "
We know she "looked to Stark "
We know Barristan to be super loyal to his sworn vows.
We know Ashara Jumps out of a window into the sea.



Remember again this an opinion of a man in love with the person he is remembering.

"...his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well.
,might she have looked to me instead of Stark ? "


So the theory being , Aerys raped Ashara , begot , Aegon, swapped with Elia 's stillborn then buggered off!
I believe she confided in Stark. Barristan would not tell betray his vows.
This is how Aegon will be unveiled as the "mummer's" dragon ! Who would know? Ashara/Lemore.


I love theories :)





__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
Status: Offline
Posts: 2391
Date:
Permalink  
 

Ashara was in love with Ned Stark before he married Catelyn; or at least Edric Dayne thinks so. . 



__________________

"There's no cure for being a cunt."  Bronn
"King Stannis is my god."  Davos
"Who the fuck is Jon Snow?"  Locke

Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
Permalink  
 
I never considered the 'Aegon is Ashara's son' theory, somehow in my mind the timeline didn't fit, BUT it was my impression too that Brandon was the one who dishonored (doesn't actually mean 'rape') her. Benjen was too young and Ned was..well, Ned. Aerys? Hmm, never thought of it but that would be quite a twist, wouldn't it? I'm still holding out for Aerys to be the father of Jamie & Cersei though, so I think that makes enough bastards. I'll get back to this once I re-read that chapter though.

__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 

Yep, There's so much back story to play with ... I'm not saying the above is my theory as such , I was just looking for the passage that didn't say Brandon raped Ashara.



__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Yep! Some people think his is Tyrion's father too!!! As he is described as WHITE blonde , not golden like the rest of the Lannisters....

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
Status: Offline
Posts: 2391
Date:
Permalink  
 
Oh, and this about Ned (Edric) Dayne from Arya's perspective: "Ned had big blue eyes, so dark that they looked almost purple. And his hair was a pale blond, more ash than honey." This is telling me one of two things; that either Ned is a possible Targaryen, or that the Daynes have very similar physical traits to the Targaryens, possibly as a result of lineage. Which can be a reason for the silly theory of Gerold Dayne = Aegon Targaryen. And it iis also possibly that "Aegon" is really a Dayne rather than Targaryen.

__________________

"There's no cure for being a cunt."  Bronn
"King Stannis is my god."  Davos
"Who the fuck is Jon Snow?"  Locke

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Yes as Ashara had purple eyes ... ha ha ! Oh we could go on and on ... it's his (GRRM) own fault for leaving us for so long ... all we have is time to speculate...

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
Permalink  
 
I'd have to do a long post on why I think the twins theory fits better than the one re: Tyrion, but in the end (for me, at least) it all comes down to Jaime's dream of Joanna and Gemma Lannister 's remark - that Tyrion is Tywin's son, and not Jaime (in terms of resemblance.) This is probably the only theory I'm 99% certain, and by far my favourite. *hugs theory tightly*

__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Hmmm but that could be nature v nurture argument :D


__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
Status: Offline
Posts: 2391
Date:
Permalink  
 
Macha wrote:

I'd have to do a long post on why I think the twins theory fits better than the one re: Tyrion, but in the end (for me, at least) it all comes down to Jaime's dream of Joanna and Gemma Lannister 's remark - that Tyrion is Tywin's son, and not Jaime (in terms of resemblance.) This is probably the only theory I'm 99% certain, and by far my favourite. *hugs theory tightly*


 Macha, by all means post. I'd love to find out that Tyrion Lannister is Tywin's *only* legitimate heir :)



__________________

"There's no cure for being a cunt."  Bronn
"King Stannis is my god."  Davos
"Who the fuck is Jon Snow?"  Locke

Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
Permalink  
 

From a literary perspective, I still think Tyrion's complexity as a character would benefit more if it turns out that he - the ugly dwarf - was the only son the great Tywin Lannister ever had. Also, I like the parallels between Cersei (Joffeey too) and Aerys, not to mention Jaime killing his own father - these are my kind of twists, because they seem so tragic and poetic at the same time.
Plus, I think there are way too many "if we were Targaryens" lines in the books and the show not to mean anything.

Cary - Ok, I'll be back with the 'evidence' shortly. :)



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 10th of September 2012 01:43:40 PM

__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
and they both killed their own father's ?

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
Permalink  
 

So, here goes. This is in no way *my* theory, as Yvyb already said this has been discussed by many fans, though I wouldn't call it a hugely popular theory either.

Jaime& Cersei as Aerys' children:

1. Aerys supposedly "took liberties" with Joanna at the time of the bedding, we learn this in ADwD. While this doesn't mean there was any actual intercourse, it indicates the possibility that Aerys might have pursued her before or afterwards as well. That story in itself is not necessarily needed at this point, except to point at something bigger, me thinks.

2. In ASoS, Genna Lannister (Jaime's aunt) tells him rather bluntly: 

"Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year."  

If you think about it, does Jaime resemble Tywin in any way? Does Cersei? I think the only one that resembles Tywin is Tyrion. And let's leave the physical traits aside for a second, because Targaryen genes don't always pass on. There are quite a few examples in the book, and how about the popular theory regarding Jon's parentage? Plus, Joanna had golden hair and green eyes as well, we don't really need Tywin in the equation. 

3. This is much more prone to interpretation, but remember that AFfC chapter when Cersei watches the Tower of the Hand burning and seems to get a wild kick out of it? Doesn't she remind you of someone? 

4. I mentioned this earlier, the Targ references in Cersei's dialogue with other characters. "If we were Targaryens", "The Targaryens did this and that", the (blatantly obvious to me) exchange between her and Tyrion in the show (S2) about the gods flipping a coin each time a Targaryen was born. Not to mention her infatuation with Rhaegar - which wouldn't be telling in itself, but it adds up nicely in this case. 

5. And finally, the piece de resistance. In AFfC, while at Riverrun, Jaime dreams of his mother, Joanna, who looks rather doleful. She asks him:

"Have you forgotten me?”
Can I forget someone I never knew? The words caught in his throat. He did know her, but it had been so long . . .
“Will you forget your own lord father too? I wonder if you ever knew him, truly.” Her eyes were green, her hair spun gold. He could not tell how old she was. Fifteen, he thought, or fifty. She climbed the steps to stand above the bier. “He could never abide being laughed at. That was the thing he hated most.”
“Who are you?” He had to hear her say it.
The question is, who are you?
“This is a dream.”
Is it?” She smiled sadly. “Count your hands, child.”
One. One hand, clasped tight around the sword hilt. Only one. “In my dreams I always have two hands.” He raised his right arm and stared uncomprehending at the ugliness of his stump.
“We all dream of things we cannot have. Tywin dreamed that his son would be a great knight, that his daughter would be a queen. He dreamed they would be so strong and brave and beautiful that no one would ever laugh at them.
“I am a knight,” he told her, “and Cersei is a queen.
A tear rolled down her cheek. The woman raised her hood again and turned her back on him. Jaime called after her, but already she was moving away, her skirt whispering lullabies as it brushed across the floor. Don’t leave me, he wanted to call, but of course she’d left them long ago. 

Now, I ask you, why would GRRM put this here if not to question Jaime's identity? This is right before he decides to burn Cersei's letter in which she asks him for help. It's obviously a turning point, like the one in ASoS when he goes back for Brienne, only this is not just a dream, his mother even tells him so. Look at the phrasing. Why would Joanna wonder if Jaime ever knew his father truly? Also, Tyrion is nowhere to be seen in this conversation. Incidentally, he's the one people tend to laugh at. When Jaime tells his mother his father's dream came true, that he is a knight and his daughter a queen, Joanna sais nothing and leaves him. WHY would she be crying? I have yet to see another interpretation of this conversation that makes sense and contradicts this theory. 

Yvyb - Mmmmmyeah. Pretty much so. 



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 10th of September 2012 02:47:25 PM

__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
Status: Offline
Posts: 2391
Date:
Permalink  
 
Macha wrote:

So, here goes. This is in no way *my* theory, as Yvyb already said this has been discussed by many fans, though I wouldn't call it a hugely popular theory either.

...

Now, I ask you, why would GRRM put this here if not to question Jaime's identity? This is right before he decides to burn Cersei's letter in which she asks him for help. It's obviously a turning point, like the one in ASoS when he goes back for Brienne, only this is not just a dream, his mother even tells him so. Look at the phrasing. Why would Joanna wonder if Jaime ever knew his father truly? Also, Tyrion is nowhere to be seen in this conversation. Incidentally, he's the one people tend to laugh at. When Jaime tells his mother his father's dream came true, that he is a knight and his daughter a queen, Joanna sais nothing and leaves him. WHY would she be crying? I have yet to see another interpretation of this conversation that makes sense and contradicts this theory. 

 


 Okay, I'm sold. 



__________________

"There's no cure for being a cunt."  Bronn
"King Stannis is my god."  Davos
"Who the fuck is Jon Snow?"  Locke

Braavosi Water Dancer
Status: Offline
Posts: 1815
Date:
Permalink  
 
You had me at this one:
Macha wrote:

3. This is much more prone to interpretation, but remember that AFfC chapter when Cersei watches the Tower of the Hand burning and seems to get a wild kick out of it? Doesn't she remind you of someone? 

 but after the rest of the points, I must say I'm sold too.



-- Edited by Tir Airgid on Monday 10th of September 2012 04:30:02 PM

__________________

“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”

― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.

 
 

 

Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
Status: Offline
Posts: 2391
Date:
Permalink  
 
Okay, I just read the Samwell chapter in the middle of ASOS where he meets Coldhands.

And those of you who think that Coldhands is Benjen... but it's clear that Coldhands has some warging surrounding him based on all the crow activity. I have a new thought. What if Benjen is as much of a warg as the rest of the starks and he WARGED into a wight?

HMMM ?

HMMM ?

__________________

"There's no cure for being a cunt."  Bronn
"King Stannis is my god."  Davos
"Who the fuck is Jon Snow?"  Locke

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
Cary Storm wrote:

Okay, I just read the Samwell chapter in the middle of ASOS where he meets Coldhands.

And those of you who think that Coldhands is Benjen... but it's clear that Coldhands has some warging surrounding him based on all the crow activity. I have a new thought. What if Benjen is as much of a warg as the rest of the starks and he WARGED into a wight?

HMMM ?

HMMM ?


 I've had that EXACT same thought .... but it goes back to ..." that one is very old" ..  Who was the Bloodraven's  rival in love ? I've been thinking about that today... did he bring him back by accident like he tells Bran not to with Ned?



-- Edited by YvyB on Monday 10th of September 2012 04:55:34 PM

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
Permalink  
 
Cary - there's a LOT of speculation on warging but warging a wight just sounds impossible to me. Plus, why would he keep his identity a secret from Bran? And, IF he was alive and well and just in the body of a wight, why didn't he sent a message to the Wall alerting them of the White Walkers and everything?


__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
Status: Offline
Posts: 2391
Date:
Permalink  
 
Maybe Coldhands is BRAN Warging into the PAST. Try and tear that down!

__________________

"There's no cure for being a cunt."  Bronn
"King Stannis is my god."  Davos
"Who the fuck is Jon Snow?"  Locke

Priestess of R'hllor
Status: Offline
Posts: 3348
Date:
Permalink  
 

This is reaching Moffat levels of mindfucking.  

I love it. 



__________________

"Fuck you, Andy Pandy. I AM the loop."

High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
Status: Offline
Posts: 1399
Date:
Permalink  
 
Why would bran join the night's watch?

__________________

AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport. 

Children Of The Forest VP
Status: Offline
Posts: 759
Date:
Permalink  
 
Cary Storm wrote:

Ashara was in love with Ned Stark before he married Catelyn; or at least Edric Dayne thinks so. . 


 Thanks for bringing this up Cary, I was reading through the threads before asserting this point . 

I haven't participated much in speculations ( of this and other characters ) but Edric disclosing

to Arya , while traveling with ser Beric and Thoros, made this a tasty morsel to chew on.



__________________

" None is so blind as those who will not see  "

Goddess of Tits and Wine
Status: Offline
Posts: 1838
Date:
Permalink  
 
What about Tyrion's mis matched eyes .... GRRM seems to mention them a plenty... a Targaryan trate ....

__________________

  That is what I do . . I drink and I know things 

 

 
«First  <  1 2 3 4 5  >  Last»  | Page of 5  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Chatbox

Please log in to join the chat!

*NO book spoilers are allowed in chat*