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Topic: GreenSight / Prophetic Dreams / Wargs and SkinChangers ________________Spoiler Alert

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Children Of The Forest VP
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GreenSight / Prophetic Dreams / Wargs and SkinChangers ________________Spoiler Alert
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Since I am very much a novice when it comes to George R. R. Martin's work , there is much I continue

to learn and enjoy about his body of collective writings. There are similarities of interest shared with

Tolkien, an author and scholar I hold in highest esteem. These men and women, all scholarly and

Nerdist true, gave hope to to future generation of Geeks, Science and Math Majors, Comic Book

reading men and Badass Sci Fi Goddesses. evileye

 

My grandmother once told me when I was a small child that I have the gift of second sight. Some

people refer to these comprehensions as  premonitions , travel outside one's body ( w/ mind ), or

prophecy. My background in medicine provided no scientific rationale for any of this, so I dream as

most Nerdist do, of a world where Jules Verne, Steven B Hawkin, Carl Sagen and Neils DeGrassi

and Issac Asimov could go out for a bottle of Arbor Gold and swap stories of intelligent life on Mars and 

what Fangorn Forest must look like this time of year. Anyway, enough about my friends.yawn

 

From what I've ascertained, author George R.R. Martin manages to form inextricable links through

families and animals and mystics. In A Song of Ice and Fire, a tangle of threads with similar patterns,

Gods, Nature and Gifts illuminate the world depicted and perhaps explain the mysteries of our present

one. An often used phrase " Blood of the Dragon " was omitted here because of limited information.

I was able to find a reference however ( aside from Khaleesi and Viserys using it constantly on Game

of Thrones disbelief). FYI :  " Blood of the Dragon " 1996 Novella printed within the Asimov's Science

Fiction magazine and published in English. Good luck hunting for that one. smile

One note; although Tolkien also mentioned Wargs in his Ring Trilogy, these were referred to as an

evil breed of demonic Wolves.

 

 

Per ASOIAF-westeros , GREENSIGHT is the ability to have Prophetic Dreams called " Green Dreams ".

 

It was well known that Children of the Forest possessed Greensight ( Greenseers ) and Cranogmen

whom kept the old ways. The only  Cranog character we know of thus far is Jojen Reed.

 

I'm including PROPHETIC Abilities in this topic because of the same gift or similarities shared.

there is overlap as you'd note below. There is an acknowledgement that those of stronger power

and link to their gifts possess more than one ability, moving beyond the limits of others whom

share similar gifts. 

 

A SKINCHANGER or WARG is a person with the ability to enter the mind of an animal ( or person )

and control it's actions. This is relatively easy to do if a strong bond already exists. An untrained

SkinChanger may unconsciously enter the mind of an animal, especially while sleeping and again

a strong existing bond. It is also noted that Wargs may also posses the ability of Greensight.

 

List of Greenseers and those with some Greensight are : Brynden Rivers and Bran Stark ( Ned's son ) ;

                           Children of the Forest survivors ( Leaf , et.al ) and Jojen Reed. The COTF differed

                           slightly because they also possessed Magical Ability.

 

List of Prophetic Sight  ( aka priests and priestesses are ) : of _Rh'llor / Red God  ___  Melisandre

                                                                                                                           __ Thoros of Myr

                                                                                                                           __ Moqurro

                                                                        : of_Targaryeons___ Prince Daeron ( the drunk)

                                                                                                        Prince Aemon (son of Maekar 1)

                                                                                                        Daemon Blackfyre

                                                                                                        Danerys ( Stormborn)

                                                                         : of__Stark______  Bran Stark

                                                                         : of__ Reed______ Jojen Reed

 

List of Wargs : Bran Stark / Arya Stark / Jon Snow / Danerys Tagaryeon / Brynden Rivers (3 eyed crow)

                      Robb Stark and Rickon Stark both likely possess this ability too.

                      Wildlings__Orell / Varamyr Sixskins / Haggar / Borroq / Briar / Grisella

 

I've included much here to open up any and relevant discussion on the subject. Please feel free to

correct or include additional references and/or insights. aww

 

                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                          

 

 

 



-- Edited by WildSeed on Friday 21st of September 2012 05:38:09 AM

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Priestess of R'hllor
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"Robb Stark and Tommen Stark both likely possess this ability too." Think you meant..Rickon? aww 

Also, to add to the list of those gifted with prophetic sight: the Ghost of High Heart, possibly a descendant of the CotF also (notice she's extremely short).  



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Children Of The Forest VP
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Thanks Macha :D I corrected Tommen to Rickon, I believed that was the only typo. Tommen Lannister
wish he had something more special than his mother Cersei. Well, GRRM could always flip us out
with Tommen being something special and not revealed as of yet ( grrrrr.... cannot go there )

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Priestess of R'hllor
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I remembered one more - Maggy the Frog, although her prophetic sight appears to be working through the tasting of blood. Interesting, she came from the east but her eyes resemble those of the CotF (Cersei remembers she had yellow eyes). 



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Could be why he bonds so well with Ser Pounce.

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Ah Maggy the Frog? I always thought she was the woman that Arya meets when she is with Beric's boys. Question and spoiler : Is Jaime the (cant remember the word) brother who is said will kill Cersei? I know she believes its Tyrion, but....

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Priestess of R'hllor
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Rygar, personally I think that the dwarf woman that Arya meets and Maggy the Frog are not the same person, they're personalities seem distinct, and I think they differ in appearance as well.

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I forgot the dwarf woman's name ( certain she is COTF ) and simply forgot at time of writing this at 2 am.

She had a crush on the singer that accompanied Thoros and Beric Dondarion. I do't recall her name

actually ( I call her auntie, naturally ), but she is one of the last living in the Westeros environs. Her

location was very close to Acorn Hill.

 

ser Rygar and lady Macha, I believe Maggie the Frog was some other Prophetic Priestess that Cersei

encounters in her younger years. I would not rule out that the two are the same person, but likely

a different person entirely. She gave Cersei the frights though, and mentioned quite a bit in ADWD.

I hope GRRM gives us som edistinction.



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I was a bit disappointed with GRRM asserting maester Aemon's points about Melisandre and Danerys in
bit parts and spurts. His comments were very thoughtful and perhaps reflected his Targaryeon gift moreso
than him bein a wise old man. He bore a link to the dragons especially since he The Wall and at open sea,
but ole GRRM cut our time with short at that point. I'm certain we have others that will pick up where he
left off but I remain greedy for more in book 6.


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An interesting point was brought up in the " Coldhands " Forum Topic about the true effects of Warging.

It actually addresses the higher transformation of SKINCHANGER ability and the consequences of that

transformation.

 

In ADWD, Bran is repeatedly warned by Jojen to exercise caution and limit his Warging with Summer.

The warning may be what the COTF had witnessed for many generations of an animal Symbiosis

could lead to hijacking that host to the point of no return. In ADWD ,the Wildling that was accompaning

Jon , later took over a woman's body as his current host body was failing. It was if he had sapped all the

essence out of the body he resided in and in order to wrestle with the existing host one of them had to

give up control or living as it were. Ironically the take over was time limited and could expire at short

notice. A new life form would need to be found to remain a SkinChanger.

Another example was the Eagle flying above lord Stannis as he made his campaign against the Wildlings

as he approached the Wall. With little notice, the bird burst into flame.

 

SkinChangers are no doubt related to the protective Ravens and Crows accompanying ColdHands as he 

rescued SamWell and Gilly then later Bran and his entourage. My guess is these are former Night's Watch

Brothers in a new life form. Coldhands is of course a Wight, but a special one of GRRM's making.

Lord Commander Mormont's crow appear to have a role in warning or protecting the Night Watch

lord Paramount no matter whom that becomes. Jon Snow became the next in line. The animals do

retain much of their native characteristics but Skin Change goes beyond temporary Warging. Who's

got some Corn ! Corn ! Corn !

 

We have only begun to glimpse into this mystical/ magical world of the North and more facts are needed

to fully appreciate the qualities and similar patterns certain gifts ( or curses ) make of the person. For now

we can only theorise or phone GRRM late in the night to answer to our angst. May I borrow someone's

SmartPhone ?  blankstare

 

 



-- Edited by WildSeed on Wednesday 26th of September 2012 07:32:18 PM

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I just keep realizing that I need to read these books again. With pencil in hand, and highlighter at the ready.

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Macha wrote:

I remembered one more - Maggy the Frog, although her prophetic sight appears to be working through the tasting of blood. Interesting, she came from the east but her eyes resemble those of the CotF (Cersei remembers she had yellow eyes). 


 Maggy

Spoiler
aww



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Interesting summation WS, the mystical powers that so many characters have will probably become more important in the next few seasons as the war inevitably reduces the population and it stays dangerous to live on either side of the Narrow Sea. A woman would love to see some scenes of Rob and Jon warging with their direwolves this year, it would be so great if they were to discover their powers themselves and make any use of them they can.


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MrsHghar wrote:

Interesting summation WS, the mystical powers that so many characters have will probably become more important in the next few seasons as the war inevitably reduces the population and it stays dangerous to live on either side of the Narrow Sea. A woman would love to see some scenes of Rob and Jon warging with their direwolves this year, it would be so great if they were to discover their powers themselves and make any use of them they can.


 Me too lady H'ghar. Tho I'm unsure if HBO will make right of Robb's circumstances with the epic fail of

season 2 ( Robb's story with Catelyn and Talisa ). Robb warging with Grey Wind just may the cure for

furthere TV interest tho and I'm very much on board with that. Viewers need more GW before the worst

happens. To be accurate, there's a lot of knitting together story wise to build a cohesive story at this point.

 

What do you make of the feeble attempt above to coalesce a framework around the subject ( of Warging etc )?

What are your insights. (?)  smile )

 

Ser Rygar, I am in dire need of re-reading all 5 books. I devoured them as if there was a single meal, with

reading and later comprehension.  I'm still hungry and a slow course of re-read is on the menu.  I will

likely do this in a few months time but I will probably end up starving again and hullucinating about Book 6.

With Book 6 at a 5 year wait , I will read something lighter in mood. 



-- Edited by WildSeed on Wednesday 26th of September 2012 07:52:14 PM

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Rygar wrote:

Ah Maggy the Frog? I always thought she was the woman that Arya meets when she is with Beric's boys. Question and spoiler : Is Jaime the (cant remember the word) brother who is said will kill Cersei? I know she believes its Tyrion, but....


Valonqar, I believe. "Younger brother".  Jaime was born after Cersei, right? That's why she's always feeling so entitled, she is Tywin Lannister's firstborn, right? 



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Children Of The Forest VP
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Cary Storm wrote:
Rygar wrote:

Ah Maggy the Frog? I always thought she was the woman that Arya meets when she is with Beric's boys. Question and spoiler : Is Jaime the (cant remember the word) brother who is said will kill Cersei? I know she believes its Tyrion, but....


Valonqar, I believe. "Younger brother".  Jaime was born after Cersei, right? That's why she's always feeling so entitled, she is Tywin Lannister's firstborn, right? 


 Ummm....weren't Jaime and Cersei twins ? or is that GoT only ? I honestly don't remember ( or care )



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Priestess of R'hllor
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They are, but she was born first, Jaime came out holding her ankle or something like that.

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Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
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Macha wrote:

They are, but she was born first, Jaime came out holding her ankle or something like that.


 Yep, that's how they were born.  I always felt that was prophetic in that he's pulling her back or pulling her towards him. 



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 

Children Of The Forest VP
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MrsHghar wrote:

Interesting summation WS, the mystical powers that so many characters have will probably become more important in the next few seasons as the war inevitably reduces the population and it stays dangerous to live on either side of the Narrow Sea. A woman would love to see some scenes of Rob and Jon warging with their direwolves this year, it would be so great if they were to discover their powers themselves and make any use of them they can.


 I presume you're referring to the GoT series , lady H'ghar. The camera does add great visual interest , and may 

neatly streamline a few points as it strives to set the stage in an efficient manner. They have their scope of vision,

for that show.

 

But alas, I'm only interested in the Books in this topic, and what the hell GRRM may be up to. In some ways we have

only glimpses overall, a sample . With certain individuals we were fed a bit more material, but a chapter here and there.

It's conceivable that some individuals will be be deleted , as others prove more important and gain prominance.

There too is the reference , or introducing certain  influences, spelling it out for us to understand may not not

be GRRM's intent. 



-- Edited by WildSeed on Saturday 29th of September 2012 05:56:50 PM

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So Maggie the Frog seems to be mentioned by Tywin in the Tyrion chapter when they discuss his marriage to Sansa. Maggie seems to be related to Jeyne Westerling. Hmmm.

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Ummmmm......I'm not sure why this topic now appears in the  " Speculation " area. The purpose here
was to discuss known facts of a specific ASOIAF subject or feature. Naturally, we may may wish to comment

further on finer points ( including speculate future events ).

 

I consider it a good idea though, to add a forum that contains purely speculative subjects, the " Crackpot

Theories ", and other Theory/ Speculation subjects will likely draw much interest.

 



-- Edited by WildSeed on Saturday 6th of October 2012 09:44:23 PM

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I wonder if Pod will have some nice dreams now.

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Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
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I, like old Nan, in more than one way () more and more feel "all crows are liars". Don't like Bran around that 3-eyed crow.

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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 

 
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