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Topic: History (controversial and otherwise)

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Priestess of R'hllor
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RE: History (controversial and otherwise)
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No, I agree with everything you said about the movie from an artistic point of view, it was extremely poor. I only asked about it because I wanted to know your opinion on its authenticity. It stayed with me because I haven't seen many films about Argentina on that particular subject, so it had its impact. But the ending was horrible, it seemed fake and just thrown in there.

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Children Of The Forest VP
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When it comes to movies depicting historical content ( disguised as drama ), I decide to watch
only depending on the director involved in the project. There's always a bias, and I really don't
want to walk out in disgust. Hollywood does well with some films based on historical footnote,
I usually don't mind ( say a one person perspective ), but I draw the line at " docudramas ".
I deplore historical inaccuracy, and I will usually dismiss without question, any film depicting
the African enslavement in US /American colonies. This will never be entertainment for me.
For most of my loose acquaintances and friends, the outrage and dismissal of the projects
mirror mine own values. It hurts to see some of this onscreen, the impact of the subject
matter is unspeakable. I typically watch movies to be entertained ( LOL or intrigued ), it has
to be worth my precious time to sit through it.


When Sting recorded Le Querca Solo, I cried with each listen. My mom said this reminded her of the
Ton Ton Macoute ( in Haiti ).



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Children Of The Forest VP
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On the subject of reading any historical document, there is rarely an unbiased account.
There have been dedicated monasteries and misc individuals dedicated to recording an
accurate description. However when a generation passes, who resumes the work and
by what new mandate ? There may only exist a narrative or version of the original work.
I can't help but remember maester Aeron and Samwell in the musty Castle Black book
suppository, or the professors at the Citadel. Even with noble intent, the current
political climate could enforce actions or influence some to take sides. It's all reflected
in the document. Leave out a word, a letter, change or revise the meaning. I can't
imagine how messed up caricatures and hieroglyphs would be with the imposed omissions.

Recorded history will never be an accurate account, but it is very possible to record
what is true. This may be a balance of true events and/or actions, but omissions and
additions are not unlikely. For all things, it comes down to considering the source from
which it came. Until we find actual scientifically proven archives, theorists will piece
together a composite of sorts. We need to keep separate the heads of state or empires,
far away from the record keepers. Imagine Chinese Dynasties or Inca or African histories,
wiped out by the current reigning Dynasty or king. When there was political occupation,
or conquering powers, the replacement or reappropriation of saints and governing
statures become obsolete. It's utterly sad that many native people ( Africa, the Americas,
Asia and throughout E&W Europe ) have their histories suppressed or relics destroyed.
I respond as if were an abomination, future generations bereft of their forebearers to
celebrate and revere. To better understand one's future, one has to know the past.
Acknowledging mistakes make for a solid path moving forward. This way, no matter
the successors in high office, the populace does remain ignorant ( if it is so, it will
be of their own choosing ).

Documentaries ( film and written ) and well respected historians are out there. These will
rarely romanticize the atrocities and historical events, although some do maester an
astute character at the attempt. There are a few I'd urge to read : Mary Beard ( Greek
& Roman mythology & Classic European) / Adam Nicholson as an honorable mention
( try reading " God's Secretaries " ) / Karen Armstrong , for all things pertaining to
religion and the crusades. Her specialty is Islam, I am forever indebted to her for
her accurate research and personal convictions / Albert Einstein, Issac Asimov and
Rosalind Franklin. There are so many more, my brain is overwhelmed.

I am content that I left (my once best subject) history as a career pursuit behind, replacing
it with science. At least scientific research must be reproducible in order to be found accurate.
Even if fools rush ahead, the research reveals an unbiased history of the project data.

Sorry for the long post. This will be the last one of the sort.


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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Has anyone seen this or read the books? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EAqu28Dd-M&feature=related
I've watched the film and I quite enjoyed it, but I believe the books are far superior, if only I can find them.

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Priestess of R'hllor
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@Aegon Only watched the film. Half of it...because I couldn't finish it. I expect the books to be better, but I haven't encountered them so far.

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Grand Maesterbator
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I have been reading "Inferno: The World at War 1939-1945" by Max Hastings. He does a great job with different perspectives of the war.

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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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A song from Medieval Total War, sung from the perspective of a Saracen Noblewoman, circa Crusades. Hauntingly beautiful and very true.

So on to a new topic, who is your avourite historical figure and why. Defying expectation, mine is not Richard I of England. 



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Mistress Of The Coin
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Thomas Jefferson. Brilliant, inventive, always relied on primary sources in their original language, an exceptional man in an exceptional time. I've read thousands of his letters and writings, and no man impresses me more. I could go on, but I'll spare you. Oh, except stannis was Jefferson in John Adams (a sadly inaccurate mini-series, but enjoyable nonetheless).

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Mistress of the Rookery
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till what year Prof. Aegon? Do we have limits? could be till 1942?



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Priestess of R'hllor
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Hmm, there are many options for me here but since we talked about rulers earlier, I'll do with Henri IV of France. Tolerant than most, concerned with his people, intelligent and charming. He got shit done. Pretty sexy too, judging by his portraits. My kind of man.

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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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It could be Obama, so long as it is an historical figure. Anyone mentions Justin Bieber and I"ll rape his/her fucking corpse!

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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Justin ... No really ! I think I have a favorite time , Tudors , But I do love Queen Elizabeth ... and Queen Victoria did a lot for England ...

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Mistress of the Rookery
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Worldwide would be: Simone Weil, french philosopher and WWII activist (?). This is to big a woman to sum up in a few words. Maybe later.
And from Argentina it´s quite easy: Manuel Belgrano... he was our T. Jefferson maybe. Have to check my facts. S.XVIII here, a lawyer, one of our heroes from May Revolution (the beginning of our independence from Spain). A great man. He used to stand on a small bench at the Plaza de Mayo (center of Buenos Aires) and read aloud, for all people, the Social Contract by Rousseau. A very smart and very brave man.



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 Messi has been and will always be one of my favorite players. It broke my heart a little bit that he didn't win today. Messi is awesome in every way. But Sean Penn still sucks all the dicks. Atat.

 

 

 

Banned in Six Kingdoms
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Mistress of the Rookery
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Atreyu wrote:


 well Atreyu, I thought that three people was a historic abuse so I left Ernesto out.



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 Messi has been and will always be one of my favorite players. It broke my heart a little bit that he didn't win today. Messi is awesome in every way. But Sean Penn still sucks all the dicks. Atat.

 

 

 

Braavosi Water Dancer
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Macha wrote:

Hmm, there are many options for me here but since we talked about rulers earlier, I'll do with Henri IV of France. Tolerant than most, concerned with his people, intelligent and charming. He got shit done. Pretty sexy too, judging by his portraits. My kind of man.


 Stop warging me Macha!!! I'm a big admirer of Henri IV of France. Have you read that apparently they found his head?



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Banned in Six Kingdoms
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On the face of it, Che really has a romantic story: tragic character with ideals. But, when you get down to it, he killed people, and not in the abstract. I'm not sure how to feel about him. Always looking for input.

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Mistress of the Rookery
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Atreyu wrote:

On the face of it, Che really has a romantic story: tragic character with ideals. But, when you get down to it, he killed people, and not in the abstract. I'm not sure how to feel about him. Always looking for input.


 I don´t know if there is a famous figure in history that has not killed or sent to kill people. It´s a huge debate. What to do when you have ideals and  you have to give up some of them for the good of others? Judging him (or anyone else) only for that is not exactly fair but I know what you mean tho.

I chose Simone Weil, she did not kill anyone and tried to do brave things her whole life. But Belgrano did and he probably sent to kill too.



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 Messi has been and will always be one of my favorite players. It broke my heart a little bit that he didn't win today. Messi is awesome in every way. But Sean Penn still sucks all the dicks. Atat.

 

 

 

Priestess of R'hllor
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Tir Airgid wrote:

 Stop warging me Macha!!! I'm a big admirer of Henri IV of France. Have you read that apparently they found his head?


Yes! Hahaha, I remember they had a funeral at Saint Denis a while back. They confirmed it to be his after carbon dating and because it had his scars and the mark from his earring (sassy dude!). Poor Headless Henri...



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Priestess of R'hllor
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

So on to a new topic, who is your avourite historical figure and why. Defying expectation, mine is not Richard I of England. 


 You never told us yours, Aegon.



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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I kept quite for a reason. Mine is the person that was part of the story that launched my love of History.
Before I say anyone ever read or seen the Horrible Histories Series?
I started reading Asterix and Obelix when I was four. I begged my mom and dad to buy me as many of the books as they could get their hands on. I devoured them all (Tintin soon followed, but that's off topic). I spent many an hour in the backyard, making a berry and cooldrink brew in a pot, drinking the vile liquid and pretending I'm an indomitable Gaul.
But what really fascinated me was the man who inspired so much fear in the other Gauls. Julius Caesar, I mean who was he? So one history book led to the next, each one more complicated and detailed than the last. Age of Empires came out not too long after than and sure enough I was hooked on history. But I never forgot the man!
He's probably the most talented human being in history, a skilled soldier, a master general and tactician, someone who inspired royalty and could play the Game of Thrones with the best of them, a skilled writer and poet, orator and statesmen. A champion of the people. One that had such charisma, such power of personality that when he died he was hailed as a god in human form.
He's my favourite, a man who knew what had to be done and wasn't scared to do it.
I would kill to see a film in which Charles Dance plays Caesar!

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Priestess of R'hllor
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I knew it, I knew it! Funny thing is that we're used to see a rather "regal" Caesar on screen but if you look at his descriptions, he wasn't exactly that. But I love the man too, sneaky bastard that he was.
And I need no excuse to post this.



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Goddess of Tits and Wine
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

I kept quite for a reason. Mine is the person that was part of the story that launched my love of History.
Before I say anyone ever read or seen the Horrible Histories Series?


 Yes my youngest has them all I believe and is forever quoting ... did you know? Then I'll say not according to QI !



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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I also collected all 80 issues when I was a kid. I recently found out about the series. I am so gonna watch it!
Yeah Macha Caesar was a real man's man, not afraid to get his hands dirty or to get stuck in! That's why his men loved him so much.
Two of my favourite stories of the man. When he had just turned 30, he saw a statue of Alexander the Great, he left weeping, cause at 30 Alexander had conquered the known world, yet Caesar had not done anything of note yet. I feel and respect that.
Secondly when he was taken prisoner by Pirates, he read them some of his poetry, they laughed at his posh ways. He told them as soon as they ransomed him back, he would come for them and crucify them all. They didn't believe him. A little while later they were all hanging from crosses.

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Grand Maesterbator
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Ah Aegon.

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