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Topic: Can 1st person persepctive be adapted for television?

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Knight Of The Sunset Sea
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Can 1st person persepctive be adapted for television?
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I have been reading ADWD for a fourth time. While reading a Tyrion chapter I ultimately asked myself if a single point of view perspective can be used in a single episode of the television adaptation Game of Thrones.  I believe that if it could be done it would need Tyrion as the focal point.  If the program continues through a six season, Tyrion's character will be developed substantially. Much of the audience can identify his wit and deft political scheming. There is precedent of HBO allowing programs to use a single point of view in it episodes.  I believe that Tyrion's adventure in ADWD can make one outstanding episode of television.  From snails in Pentos to the Slaver's Bay Tyrion is always on the move. Segues can be done as he awakens from the various blows to the head.

What do you think?



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Wielder of the Baratheon BANHAMMER
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First person can work in a limited sense, I personally can't recall a single Tv show or film where the whole first person view worked well, or even as a gimmick.

Tyrion POV, lol. You would see people from the waist down, bottoms of cups and lots of Shae boobage.

But I bet Linda would LOVE a POV Tv show complete with voice over! How close to the books!

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Priestess of R'hllor
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Nice thread! I never thought about it. 
Amsterpaul wrote:

 There is precedent of HBO allowing programs to use a single point of view in it episodes. 


 I don't remember HBO going for that, but this is just my stupid memory. I've seen this on other shows and I'd say it's usually a risky move, because it splits the audience. Also, I've always seen this as one of those "ok we've exhausted almost all other ideas, so let's make an episode centered solely around X". 

For GoT, I think there are zero chances of this happening, simply because they already have a hard time fitting the story in ten episodes per season. So I highly doubt they'll focus a whole episode on Tyrion alone. These episodes usually work when the timespan for the episode is a single day, whch is not feasible for GoT. Also, in Tyrion's case this would mean a lot of additional scenes (I highly doubt the audience wants to see him cleaning his nails or playing cyvasse), while cutting screen time for everybody else. Unlikely, to say the least. 

As for my personal opinion on the appeal of such an episode...I'm going to be a bit blunt and say I detest Tyrion's chapters in ADwD almost as much as I detest Dany's. Dinklage is good enough to make it bearable for me when the time comes (and hopefully the show will last till then), but with such a wonderful cast, I wouldn't want to have a whole episode dedicated to his character alone, no matter how much I enjoy his portrayal. 



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Knight Of The Sunset Sea
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Macha wrote:
Nice thread! I never thought about it. 
Amsterpaul wrote:

 There is precedent of HBO allowing programs to use a single point of view in it episodes. 


 

As for my personal opinion on the appeal of such an episode...I'm going to be a bit blunt and say I detest Tyrion's chapters in ADwD almost as much as I detest Dany's. Dinklage is good enough to make it bearable for me when the time comes (and hopefully the show will last till then), but with such a wonderful cast, I wouldn't want to have a whole episode dedicated to his character alone, no matter how much I enjoy his portrayal. 


 

Macha, It saddens me to hear that you did not enjoy the Tyrion chapters in ADWD. I find them to be an adventure that moves quickly with a direction.  I have found the subtleties of these chapters to be fantastic. And nowhere else in the book does GRRM weave his magic. There are so many chance meetings and mysterious passages that are foreshadowing at its best.

 

 



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Knight Of The Sunset Sea
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Also I am referring to the Sopranos episode after Tony was shot and his near death experience.
I meant from one characters perspective, no his literal point of view.

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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Ah I was wondering what you mean with POV, literal I would say no. One or two things maybe, but I can't see them dedicate the entire episode to Tyrion, it would screw up the timeline too much. Maybe if they did it from season 1 onwards, like an anthology that interweaves and crosses paths. But otherwise no.
I'm also a big fan of the Tyrion chapters in ADWD.

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Children Of The Forest VP
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A single person perspective has been attempted in film , cable and stage play. Often
these are referred to as monologues. These have been successful in the past, but
audiences today want more action and high tech stuff. We live in an society of
over anxious people that are easily bored and demand a different forum.
Production teams tend to aggregate to smaller venues and academic audiences, there
is too much risk for financial backers to assume. GoT or ASOIAF could be rationed out
as differing perspectives, possibly abbreviated , but the entire work would NOT work.
There would have to be a college fantasy course, where an entire semester would be
devoted to a set of characters and/or events. That would defeat the purpose, and
the audience is limited.

GRRM got the right of it, telling the entire story in parts,
with a collection of carefully placed POV's.

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Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
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WildSeed wrote:

A single person perspective has been attempted in film , cable and stage play. Often
these are referred to as monologues. These have been successful in the past, but
audiences today want more action and high tech stuff. We live in an society of
over anxious people that are easily bored and demand a different forum.
Production teams tend to aggregate to smaller venues and academic audiences, there
is too much risk for financial backers to assume. GoT or ASOIAF could be rationed out
as differing perspectives, possibly abbreviated , but the entire work would NOT work.
There would have to be a college fantasy course, where an entire semester would be
devoted to a set of characters and/or events. That would defeat the purpose, and
the audience is limited.

GRRM got the right of it, telling the entire story in parts,
with a collection of carefully placed POV's.


 For as much as GRRM makes me frustrated.gif, I agree with you on this Wildseed.  I would already like a longer season with more intimate detail and a personal POV would go on for ages.  Although I am of the North, Paul, Tyrion is a wonderful character to me and Peter is spot on.  My twocents.gif.



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Amsterpaul wrote:
Macha, It saddens me to hear that you did not enjoy the Tyrion chapters in ADWD. I find them to be an adventure that moves quickly with a direction.  I have found the subtleties of these chapters to be fantastic. And nowhere else in the book does GRRM weave his magic. There are so many chance meetings and mysterious passages that are foreshadowing at its best.

 Don't get me wrong, my reaction to Tyrion's chapters in ADwD is a visceral one. It has more to do with the character itself and less to do with the writing - though in my opinion Theon's chapters remain GRRM's best work in ADwD, but it's just a personal preference. I liked Tyrion, obviously. But slowly I began to tire of his character in ASoS, and his self loathing in ADwD was just too much for me. Essos also might have had something to do with it, because I'm just not drawn to it one bit. 

Dinklage is phenomenal and I definitely enjoy TV - Tyrion more than his book counterpart. But in my opinion, GRRM misses the mark when it comes to his favorite characters - I'm thinking Arya and Tyrion here - because he never lets go of his recipe for them. They don't surprise me, and I don't feel drawn to them anymore. Tyrion is great when coupled with Jorah and Penny, but even then all I could think when reading those chapters was "Man, stop being such a dick. I get it, you're traumatized and smarter than everybody else. But just shut up, because I can't stand hearing about your whores any longer." 

Your initial question was very interesting though, because it made me think - again - if Tyrion would be considered the central character for the show. I guess he could be, since he functions as an avatar for both GRRM and also the audience (he's very modern in a way, and easy to relate to). But I wouldn't consider him as the central character of the series. It's tough to determine who would be, since we don't really know how the story will end. Jon and Dany seem to be the two major forces in the story, but personally I'd like GRRM to bring Bran into focus in the last two books, since I've always seen him as the catalyst of the series. 



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Grand Maesterbator
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Four times? Jesus. That is dedication. I enjoyed most of the Tyrion chapters but like Macha said the self loathing was too much to bear. I have waiting for nearly ten years to continue Tyrions saga and I was unimpressed with it to say the least. I do not think HBO would take one episode and devote it to Tyrion, especially based on the mediocrity of his story line in Dance. What makes this show work is the ensemble cast. Same as with Deadwood. It is a far superior show to GoT and they never once gave Al Swearengen a single episode, who could be considered the greatest HBO character of all time. Now if they want to devote a single episode to Ros and her ginger snap, then I think that just may work.

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Knight Of The Sunset Sea
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Thanks you all for your comments. What about a Bran episode, next year?

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Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
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Amsterpaul wrote:

Thanks you all for your comments. What about a Bran episode, next year?


 Works for me, Hamster, er, Amster!



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 

Wielder of the Baratheon BANHAMMER
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Ah so we are talking about a "centric" episode, well "Blackwater" was a centric episode. It did not stick to a single character but it did to a single location.

But with only 10 episodes a season they would grind all other storylines to a halt.

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I think I'm joining the chorus here m'jo. I don´t think a subjective POV (in camera) will work on this show. It´s not easy to get in and out from that pov with a camera and too artificial for an entire episode.
One thing: I didn´t like ADWD, especially Tyrion and Dany´s chapters. Too much.disbelief



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Knight Of The Sunset Sea
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I concede that a POV episode would not be possible. But it would be cool though.

Again I am disappointed that you did not enjoy the Tyrion and Dany chapters in ADWD. My question is always why? If you take Tyrion's development for instance. He travels 3000 miles or more both emotionally and physically. What cannot be liked.
Macha stated earlier that she found Tyrion's chapters to be full of self loathing. One way to take it. But the dude just killed his dad! C'mon



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Ok I should explain. His self-loathing is not unconvincing, on the contrary. But to me it felt like too much because it wasn't really a character development, since he was full of that before ADwD as well. But now GRRM brought it to a whole different level. He's a very repetitive writer, which works sometimes. Other times it doesn't. On my re-read, If I had to read "where would whores go?" one more time, I would have burned that book.

But ADwD in general had this major issue of derailing characters or postponing certain events that readers expected who a long time, which added to the disappointment. I personally liked the book, but those Essos chapters are painfully slow, with a plethora of characters you don't care about as a reader because you've never met them, suddenly a new Targ is introduced and so on. With Tyrion I didn't perceive it as character development, but more like a state he fell in and climbed out of at the end of ADwD, when he's back to his usual schemes. Jaime and Theon - that was development for me.

In response to your previous question, hell if I could have an episode centered on Bran & Bloodraven, that would be heaven for me. Alas, it'll only happen in my mind.  



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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Actually upon re-read you find that there are actually quite a few obscured references to another hidden Targeryen, and I don't mean the Mummers Dragon.

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Grand Maesterbator
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Let me reiterate lol, why I disliked the Tyrion story in ADoD. I waited almost....ready? TEN YEARS to pick up on Tyrion's story line. Remember how amazing it ended in ASoS? Right, so imagine waiting, again, TEN years to finally, FINALLY pick up where that left off only to realize that we still do not know where whores go but are reminded of that in almost every Tyrion chapter!!! Its not like I picked up the books when the show started and had the luxuary of reading them in sequence back to back. It was TEN YEARS. That was such a letdown and the biggest disappointment for me. Same with Dany. Somewhat the same with Jon. I actually enjoyed the Martell chapters and of course, Theon was amazing.

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Grand Maesterbator
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And I apologize for a lack of paragraphs. I add them but when I post they are not there. It must be something with using the mobile app.

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High King and Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms
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Awww Rygar, I have no idea how you must feel, but I might find out waiting for Winds. Anyways here's something to cheer you up, written for people like you. 



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Knight Of The Sunset Sea
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The let down must have killed you Ry. But luckily I have not had to wait for any book besides Winds. I hope that I never feel the same way.

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And so he spoke and so he spoke

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Defender Of The Realm
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Rygar wrote:

Let me reiterate lol, why I disliked the Tyrion story in ADoD. I waited almost....ready? TEN YEARS to pick up on Tyrion's story line. Remember how amazing it ended in ASoS? Right, so imagine waiting, again, TEN years to finally, FINALLY pick up where that left off only to realize that we still do not know where whores go but are reminded of that in almost every Tyrion chapter!!! Its not like I picked up the books when the show started and had the luxuary of reading them in sequence back to back. It was TEN YEARS. That was such a letdown and the biggest disappointment for me. Same with Dany. Somewhat the same with Jon. I actually enjoyed the Martell chapters and of course, Theon was amazing.


 I loved Tyrion's story in ADoD. It was the only logical move for him, to flee to Essos. Go to offer his services to Dany. I wonder what exactly you disliked. Genuinely interested. And I feel so bad you haven't enjoyed it. I waited about the same amount of time I think and I would have been upset if I felt disappointment when reading his POV chapters.

The only horrid part was the description that came of the Yunkish army. I felt sick at some of the description of the horrors of slavery in Martin's universe. Otherwise I loved it.



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