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Topic: Jon Snow's story arc: do David and Dan really know nothing? *spoilers*

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Knight
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Jon Snow's story arc: do David and Dan really know nothing? *spoilers*
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I've thought very hard and long about this before posting. And I'd like to hear other people's thoughts.

I am becoming increasingly cynical about how Jon's story is being brought to life on the show. I watched season one, never having read the books, and immediately took a liking to Kit's Jon. And no, this is not just because of his looks. But ever since season two, I've gotten the impression, that for either lack of story time, etc, it's been going slowly downhill. We had no decent Quorin/Jon relationship. It would have provided a beautiful emotional arc for Simon Armstrong and Kit Harington. Instead we got Jon being made to look stupid and chasing Ygritte. With this being said, there was one or two highlights with this change: Rose Leslie and the freedom speech (episode seven). However, this caused the duel and the Halfhand's death toward the end to fall a little flat. It was also very rushed in my opninion. 

I thought ok, this is probably a build-up for some romance in season three. In episodes one to three, Jon had one short scene in each. With this being said, I like the Mance scene and I like Ciaran Hinds's Mance very much. But no romance. Also no bonding with Tormund and the build-out of Tormunds character (a real shame). So the cave scene happens. Well-done, but rushed. No prior indications of romance, nothing. No emotional bonding. I at least expected Jon to have seem decent post-coital dialogue, something more intimate and deep.

Also, why does Tormund like Jon? Why does Orrel hate him? Does this make sense to casual viewers?

Now I'm concerned that, by the time we reach the first attack on the Wall and Ygritte dies, no-one will care. It won't have the impact that it's supposed to have (like with Quorin), since Jon and Ygritte haven't really properly bonded yet. They only had sex. Now, we're only halfway, so maybe there's still a chance for this.

If the writers keep on doing this, and it turns out for instance, that Jon is Azor Ahai, or suvives, I fear that the character will by then have been rendered so utterly pointless and emotioanlly stunted, that no-one, really, is going to give a shit. Can his arc be brought back to life? How will this be done? Why is it, that we are able to bond with each of the other Stark children (and Catelyn), Daenarys, the Lannisters like Tyrion and now Jaime (and Brienne) and Theon Greyjoy even, but Jon comes across as distant and secondary to the overall storyline? The writers have managed to create beautiful arcs for all these characters. The actors are given time to shine and let their characters breathe now and then. But not so for Jon (in my opinion).

Does David and Dan have favourites? Do they know Jon does in fact die and have written him off in their minds already? Do they dislike Kit's portrayal of Jon? Does GRRM have a say in this?

Now I am either expecting too much or am being over-sensitive, but I also know there is general consensus on this matter over at WiC. But I dearly hope that, by the end of this season at least, that I'll be eating my own words.

 



-- Edited by Macha on Friday 3rd of May 2013 02:15:26 PM

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Wielder of the Baratheon BANHAMMER
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RE: Jon Snow's story arc: does David and Dan really know nothing? *spoilers*
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I agree on many points, I personally think that shooting in Iceland, while it looks spectacular. It leads to production issues that lead to performance and story issues. They only get 4 hours of daylight, which is insane. I am anxious to know how many takes of scenes they can possibly have before rushing to the next shot.

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Priestess of R'hllor
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I'm not worried about Jon at all (granted, I'm not worried about any character at this point), since he will have plenty to do in S4, S5 and probably also S6 if we get there.

Think about it, the fact that we have basically no one to fill Donal Noye's shoes on the show probably means that Jon will take it upon himself to do everything at Castle Black by himself, with maybe a little help from Allister Thorne. Take it this way, S2 was neither his nor Dany's season. Dany gets her moment in S3, after which let's face it, she'll be pretty much in the background for R'hllor knows how many seasons. Jon, on the other hand, gets moment after moment since his return to the Wall. To me it feels like they simply have to choose who gets the overall focus per season, but I wouldn't say Jon's arc suffered more than others. For example, his cave scene seemed just fine to me. Could have been much better directed, but I'd argue against the interpretation that it's just sex. There's plenty of time to show how deeply he cares for Ygritte. I'm very confident that her death *will* have a very deep impact on viewers.


Personally, I seriously doubt D&D "don't get it", or that they dislike an actor or a character and that is the reason why said character gets less scenes, or scenes that could have been better scripted. I've listened to quite a bit of the interviews featured for every episode, and the way they talk about the characters, and the way the actors talk about their characters -which obviously comes from the writing- proves quite the contrary IMO.



-- Edited by Macha on Friday 3rd of May 2013 02:04:31 PM

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Knight
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Donal, I really hope this is part of the reason :) Macha, reading your take makes me feel much more positive. So it all comes down to being extremely patient then. I even wonder if Sam won't show up at the Wall before his time in the book and also advise Jon. I just realized my grammar error in my post title. It's "do", not "does". Can anyone correct that?

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Priestess of R'hllor
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Jon Snow's story arc: do David and Dan really know nothing? *spoilers*
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Mags Giantsbabe wrote:

 I even wonder if Sam won't show up at the Wall before his time in the book and also advise Jon. I just realized my grammar error in my post title. It's "do", not "does". Can anyone correct that?


 Done.

I too was wondering about Sam when I mentioned the defense of the Wall. I think they'll probably arrive at about the same time. Or perhaps Jon arrives at the Wall at the beginning of S2, instead of at the end of S1, to keep the suspense going? Dunno. But it definitely makes sense for Sam to be there and witness the preparations and the way Jon handles it; by increasing his role in the defense they could change things a bit when it comes to the election for the new commander, with Jon becoming a more obvious choice and Sam only helping in persuading the others - I seriously doubt they'll keep the ravens scene in.



-- Edited by Macha on Friday 3rd of May 2013 02:20:11 PM

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Knight
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Thanks Macha, appreciate it. I agree about the ravens. And since Sam is the one to have discovered the Dragon's Glass, it would be a great gesture if he gave one to Jon later (as opposed to Jon giving Sam one in the books).

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Knight
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After seeing episodes 6 and 7, I'm pretty happy with what they gave Jon to do. May be David and Dan do know something, and apparently Kit too. The dialogue scene with Ygritte about how many times the Wall was able to be defended and the wildlings not being able to win was gold dust in my opinion. Also the romance is sweet now rather than annoying (tra-la-la-lalaadeeday!!) I'm, convinced Queen's Crown will be the climax for both Jon and Bran's season three arcs, while battle scenes will be left for season four.

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