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Topic: An interesting essay I found regarding Ned and Lyanna' mom *spoilers*

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Knight
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An interesting essay I found regarding Ned and Lyanna' mom *spoilers*
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I found this in a link on a thread of fan theories http://branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Queen.html

I'm not sure who wrote it, but it poses some well thought out questions and speculations on the identity of Rickard Stark's wife, i.e. Brandon, Lyanna, Ned and Benjen's mom and the possible importance of this unknown bloodline for AA. I have always found it curious that we never learn of her identity. And, as we all know, when little or nothing is said of a character (but we infer the character's importance nonetheless because of other related events or characters), GrrM does not mean the person is neccesarily always UNimportant. The essay departs on the premise that 1) Jon is the son of Rhaegar T and Lyanna Stark and 2) Lyanna was the mystery knight at the Tourney of Harrenhall. I wanted to repost the entire thing here but it said that it was too long. It IS a longish read, but intrigiung nontheless. What do you guys think?



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Priestess of R'hllor
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Thanks for the read, Mags. I know many of Bran Vras's theories from westeros.org, but personally I think this is *the* definition of over-analyzing. Especially with GRRM's text, which we already know are full of inconsistencies. Nothing that takes that much to explain would be something GRRM is likely to ever slip into this series. On the same basis, we could come up with a thousand connections, none of which are likely to ever have an impact on the story, even if they were true.

Example: Littlefinger sails for the Vale in a ship that flies a flag bearing a merman, and Manderley's sigil is a merman. Coincidence? I think not.


But how can you not love when someone brings Georges Dumézil into an ASOIAF essay? That is a win right there.



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Knight
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To be quite honest I like over-analysis. It's a great weakness of mine (and a great time-killer). However, the person did lose me in the end with the links to moon worshipping and movement of religious ideas (Skagos, etc). Random coincidences that people construe as "meaningful" can also be questioned. What appeals to me of his/her ideas: Whether or not the Starks have a grandmother who is still alive (is this why Rickon is on his way there? We know why he's going, but who will he meet there?) If this woman is a descendant of Wildlings (strengthens the Stark ties to the North through both bloodlines. Lyanna's ties to the north through her choice to use a laughing Weirwood tree as sigil. (emphasizes the role of the Old Gods and their relationship to people in the north) Val's importance is emphasized, as well as the colour white (only speculatively interesting). The parallels between Mance and Rhaegar are convincing. But I think sometimes different characters in a story are indirectly compared to emphasize certain themes. But they also connect with the Story of Bael the Bard (eerily familiar to, if not with the same details as Rheagar and Lyanna) Rhaegar's possible interest in Ly's bloodlines and her family dynamics in comparison with his own are logical if R+L=J. Random sigils from completely different contexts might be connected if they were created in the same context and changed over time to suit different houses' needs (social, political circumstances). Sorry, but I love stuff like this!

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Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
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dance Love this Mags! Fun read clap

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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 

Priestess of R'hllor
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Mags Giantsbabe wrote:

 The parallels between Mance and Rhaegar are convincing. But I think sometimes different characters in a story are indirectly compared to emphasize certain themes.


 Right you are. I too love speculation, don't get me wrong. I've spent more hours than I want to count reading all sorts of crackpot theories. But ultimately, I always go back and look at the text and say to myself that even though he may have had some things in mind when he wrote some tiny detail into the text, I'm sure GRRM would not stretch these already loose threads even further, simply because he lacks the time. He'll have to get this whole thing wrapped up, so now I'm only looking at speculation from a narrative perspective - does this something to the story or not? From what I could tell, the only things that could have an impact on the story in this case are:

a. Ned's mother was a wildling/ Ned's mother could be alive and currently on Skaagos. In this case, I agree that granny Stark is of significance, and that is odd that she hasn't been mentioned. I can't decide on Skaagos, sometimes it seems like a huge red herring and sometimes it doesn't.

b. Rhaegar was more interested in Lyanna's bloodline than he was in her - which we also sort of know *if* we also agree that he only did what he did because he wanted to fulfill a prophecy. Could be a mix of everything, really, I confess I have zero interest in that particular storyline.

The other things, Dal and Vall etc - I just can't see their impact on the story which is why I find it hard to imagine they're intentional.



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Wielder of the Baratheon BANHAMMER
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Heh, I read the article and forgot to come back and give you your props Mags! Great one!

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Knight
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@ Macha: I also wonder about Rhaegar's motives. I am kind of crushing on him at the moment, so I try to be objective when it comes to info surrounding him. The best thing for sure is reading it purely form a narrative perspective. I always want to incorporate social scientific thinking because of what I studied. In ancient text it works, not sure about modern literature?

@ Donal: thanks! Came to it by accident, reading other (crackpot) theories! pillowfight



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