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Topic: Season 5 Plot Points Speculation *Book Spoilers are GO!*

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Lord Paramount
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RE: Season 5 Plot Points Speculation *Book Spoilers are GO!*
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Cleon?

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Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
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JapieQ wrote:

Cleon?


 Gurm gets more silly with the names as books progress.



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Just wait till Bukkake shows up!


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I think it might be a homage to Asimov.

Or gurm just sucks at names.

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Knight of EscarGoT
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Not every name can be a tour de force like Dickon Manwoody.

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JapieQ wrote:

Cleon?


Obviously, you're due for a ADwD re-read!  EXCITING!

Episode #41: “The Wars to Come”: Dany faces a new threat to her rule.

Just speculation Japie for that part of the description. New threat: Cleon the Butcher, King of Astapor. Daario was sent to Astapor last season. Probably comes back with news of Cleon amassing an army, ready to move on Meereen. Didn't go with Sons of Harpy, because it looks like they have ep 4: "Sons of Harpy" all to themselves.



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It has been 4 years since I read the books, so was Hardhome mentioned at all in the books. I know it is an actual place.

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Yeah. It was the closest thing the area north of the Wall had to a city, IIRC. Then some major disaster happened and it was abandoned. When the White Walkers started attacking this Mother Mole figure started prophesying that the wildlings would find their salvation there. Jon, after being chosen as Lord Commander, sends Cotter Pyke and his Eastwatch crew over there to rescue as many wildlings as they can and the last thing i remember is Jon reading a letter by Pyke saying there's dead things in the water and they suffered some casualties while rescuing the people - i'm guessing reanimated corpses - and i don't remember if rescue operation ended, if they rescued everybody, if they made it back to the wall? TW help us out here you silly sycophant!

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sid
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You are correct Dolan, Hardhome is told through a letter in a Jon chapter. I'm super excited to see how this pans out, but I can only assume that the scene will vary from the Cotter Pyke foretelling. The scene will consist of:

-Night's Watch showing up in boats to pick up the wildlings
-Wildling standoff encounter with Rattleshirt, fighting/bickering etc
-Standoff ends when wights invade the fort, wildlings either are driven back to the boats or driven to the edge of the cliff
-White walkers show up, cliff-driven wildlings fall to their doom in the water, wildlings scramble to boats
-Tormund gets killed defending Jon, who are both defending the remaining wildlings scrambling onto boats
-Jon is killed/captured by white walkers
-Possible last shot is some of the boats making it away as the cliff wildlings come out of the water

Obviously with the spoiler of the stuntmen using swords of ice it's safe to say that white walkers will be resurrecting slain wildlings as wights. What interests me is that this is in episode 8, which is similar to how the Sansa storyline ended last year.



-- Edited by sid on Thursday 26th of March 2015 02:48:45 PM

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So basically something that happens "off screen" in the books is brought forward for the Tv show, I personally think it is very clever, because in the books once Jon becomes commander it is a big ol snoozefest.

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But sid, that would mean no Night's Watch coup? I have no idea if this specific subplot is important or not but so far i've been implying that if it's cut then either it doesn't matter for the endgame or has been fused into something more cohesive, like the Elaria/Arianne thing. Well, two weeks from now we'll start to get the answers for that, thanks D&D!

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The coup could still happen, Kit has been dodgy in interviews.

Methinks it will happen after Hardhome, or after he gets back to the wall, location is not that important methinks.

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Knight of EscarGoT
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I bet he get stabbed when he get's back to the Wall in episode 9 or 10, and that rather than the pink letter it will be Hardhome going really badly that'll set it off.

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It happening at Hardhome might work better, huge victory for Jon Snow...wait...what are those knives for? Uh oh!

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I love how D&D just don't give a fuck:



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Knight of EscarGoT
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True, but how is he going to come back to life then? I don't believe this rumour that he's going to be taken away by the WW, it doesn't make any sense.

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Cosca wrote:

True, but how is he going to come back to life then?


 The "Jon coming back to life" is just a theory at this point, even in the books this is not answered, it is a fan-based assumption.

SO we could all be in for a surprise and things might play out completely different...let's see.

 



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If he really is dead that makes all this time invested pretty pointless. It's not like with Ned where there's going to be obvious massive repercussions. And then there's Melly right there. I'd say its just a theory in the same way that R+L=J is just a theory. I suppose it's also possible that he survives the stabbing, but then why even have him stabbed in the first place?

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Oh I am not saying he is dead, but just like we expected Lady Stoneheart, something entirely different might be in store.
Don't wanna set up for a prediction based on an assumption right this minute myself.

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Knight of EscarGoT
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Fair enough. I suppose pretty much anything can go down at Hardhome. Gonna be pretty crazy.

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sid
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Yup it's just a guess. I hope things play out more like the book, but this is definitely the point where left open book plots will be closed in different ways on the show than what's to come in TWOW.

I'm just going to act like this is Star Trek and think about the show and the books like two seperate timelines.

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Atreyu wrote:

Pfffft. Annulment, schmanulment. Many won't see Sansa's marriage as valid anyway because it was not consummated and her consent was made under duress. Both things matter in GURM's universe (and in ye olde medieval times as well -- to a point). Someone else could marry her at any time and they'll sort out the whys and wherefors later.


Spoiler



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Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
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Atreyu wrote:
Atreyu wrote:

Pfffft. Annulment, schmanulment. Many won't see Sansa's marriage as valid anyway because it was not consummated and her consent was made under duress. Both things matter in GURM's universe (and in ye olde medieval times as well -- to a point). Someone else could marry her at any time and they'll sort out the whys and wherefors later.


Spoiler


 ^----- WARNING: SHOW SPOILER ABOVE. 



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OMG Cary! You made me laugh so hard. BAN HIS ASS. SHOW SPOILING THE BOOK READERS! Tsk, Tsk spiderkill

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TormundsWoman wrote:

SHOW SPOILING THE BOOK READERS! Tsk, Tsk spiderkill


 And so it begins. Brave new world, bitches.



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I heard a rumour that a character dies in the first episode which might anger book fans. I didn't ask which character cause I want to remain in the dark but he said it wasn't one of the POV.



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Yeah, I think I know which one you're talking about. I was not happy to learn about it, in part 'cause I don't like the idea (although who knows how it will turn out), but mostly because when I uncovered the spoiler, I didn't know it was a spoiler about the first episode.

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what doesnt angers book wankers?

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Dolan wrote:

what doesnt angers book wankers?


When they treat the source material with care and respect.

I just hope this rumoured death has a purpose. I don't want it just for the sake of shock value.

My fear is D & D might end up getting sidetracked with of how famous the series has become for killing off characters. Yes I know GRRM does it with much glee but that doesn't warrant the need for a killing frenzy on the show just because the end is in sight.



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Knight of EscarGoT
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In this case though, following the book storyline with that character would result in more cheap shock value, not less.

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Well since I don't know (and don't want to!) which character it is I can't comment.

We shall see. Come Monday by 10pm I may be filled with rage or relief.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Sunday 12th of April 2015 12:51:29 PM

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I'm hoping for AL RAAAAAGE!!!!



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Dolan wrote:

I'm hoping for AL RAAAAAGE!!!!


 Of course you would you cruel bastard! biggrin

 

What if it's all a ruse and S4 turns out to be 100% faithful adaptation of AFFC. The reactions on here would be banderas



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Knight of EscarGoT
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Ah, I thought you knew who it was from your post. Nevermind then

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it's not Al,


it's not

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Knight of EscarGoT
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Lol, 100% true? Can't wait for the Nimble Dick episode where we go on a guided tour of Craclaw point.

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They're burning SO much material with Tyrion-Varys and Brienne-Sansa/LF, it's amazing and hilarious. Well done. It's great watching this show for the first time (as a book reader) and having no clue on what's about to happen.

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Knight of EscarGoT
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Yup. That's 1 quarter of Feast for Crows gone, and that's just the cut Brienne material.

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Oh, I wonder what happens to Varys in the show. The plan seems to be that both Tyrion and him are going to Meereen to get Dany. Yet somehow only Tyrion arrives. Probably because Jorah kidnaps him in the Volantis brothel. So where does that leave Varys? Will he come back to KL to kill Kevan, since Kevan is in again?!

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TormundsWoman wrote:

 So where does that leave Varys? Will he come back to KL to kill Kevan, since Kevan is in again?!


 Except Kevan already left for Casterly Rock, didn't he? 

I don't think Varys goes back to KL just yet, it would have been much easier for the show to just leave him there if that was the case. It's a wild guess where he might turn up next, but judging by the way D&D are juggling the storylines and locations, I bet it'll be somewhere new. 



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But "In the Pooks!" Kevan only takes over after Cersei is arrested, no?
I'm too lazy to look it up

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Here, lazy: awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Kevan_Lannister

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"A Feast for Crows

When the body of Lord Tywin Lannister is discovered, Ser Kevan is one of the first to be notified of his brother's death. He prays by the bed-side of his brother, evidently shaken by the murder.[7]

Following the death of his brother, Tywin, Queen Regent Cersei offers Kevan the position of Hand of the King. Kevan doubts Cersei's leadership, and reveals Tywin informed him of his plan to send her back to the Westerlands as Lady of Casterly Rock with a new husband before his death. Kevan states that he will only accept the position if Cersei names him Regent as well as Hand and she return to the Rock. He also advises choosing Mathis Rowan or Randyll Tarly as Hand of the King instead.[3]

Cersei refuses his demands, which prompts Kevan to say from what he saw of Joffrey, Cersei is as unfit a mother as she is a ruler, causing an enraged Cersei to throw her wine in his face. Kevan also warns his niece to not make him a foe, as despite being a household knight of Tywin, he has two hundred knights under his command, with gold to hire sellswords and influence to double his numbers.[3]

Cersei later appoints two Lannister cousins in positions that Kevan was better suited for; Daven is made Warden of the West and Damion is named Castellan of Casterly Rock. Kevan is also angered that Daven Lannister received the title of Warden of the West over him, though he bears Daven no ill will as he knows Daven never asked for the position. At Tommen's wedding, Cersei suggests that Kevan hunt down "the Hound", but he rebuffs her.[16]

Kevan rides at the head of the escort that is to return his brother's body to the Westerlands to be buried in Casterly Rock; 100 crossbowmen, 300 men-at-arms, and the lords of the west. Kevan quickly becomes alienated from his immediate family and comes to believe Tyrion to be Joffrey's murderer. He also comes to believe the rumors of incest between Cersei and Jaime, and confronts his nephew with his suspicion during the procession, while informing him he is leaving to help Lancel restore Darry.[6] Lancel soon becomes a religious fanatic and abandons Castle Darry, the estate Kevan had won for him.

Kevan refuses to add his forces to his cousin's at the Siege of Riverrun, and returns to the west to see his younger son Martyn.[17] After Cersei's imprisonment, the small council led by Grand Maester Pycelle and Harys Swyft name Kevan Regent of the King and send a raven to Casterly Rock offering him the position.[18] "


So yeah, wrapping up book 4 here.

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So here are some differences between book!Kevan and show!Kevan:

1) Lancel is already a religious fanatic, so that whole business about him becoming one after Kevan sets him up (on the journey to Casterly Rock) is nonsense.
2) Since the two Gemma Lannisters Frey kids from the book are now Kevan's dead kids, how did that affect him? (Of course he had other dead kids in the book, so what of it).

I suppose the real question is if Kevan is going to Casterly Rock with Tywin's body or not. Because he's got some important work to do.

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I am sad that Gemma has not been obviously cast. *le sigh*

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Varys can come back at KL. Aaaahhh Shit. teehee

Edit because post hinted at a show only stpoiler.



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Monday 13th of April 2015 03:18:05 PM

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I can say that there is no way in hell that Margaery is more beautiful than Cersei. Younger, yes, but Marge is not hotter. Which can only mean that the younger more beautiful queen is Sansa.



-- Edited by Rygar on Monday 13th of April 2015 10:59:44 PM

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Lord Bannerman Of The Smileys
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Rygar wrote:

I can say that there is no way in hell that Margaery is more beautiful than Cersei. Younger, yes, but Marge is not hotter. Which can only mean that the younger more beautiful queen is Sansa.


 I think you're on to something.  But Dany is also more beautiful. Although she can't act worth a shit. 



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If Cersei expects Margaery to be the one to cast her aside, it's definitely not her.
Speaking strictly from the level of promotion Dany's character is getting, and because everybody expects her to cross the Narrow Sea at some point and attack KL, I think she'd be the safest bet. BUT I would love it if it were Sansa, because there is already a background and much more meaning to their relationship.

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If the prophecy was a more frumpy queen I would agree that Dany is the perfect choice.

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