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Topic: Episode 510 - “Mother’s Mercy” *No Book Spoilers*

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Priestess of R'hllor
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RE: Episode 510 - “Mother’s Mercy” *No Book Spoilers*
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PS: Finally, something happened in Arya's storyline. Why do I get the feeling she won't be kicked out of school tho? I'll probably have to endure more of Braavos for most of season 6 too, as she adapts to being blind or something changes. Oh well, can't have everything.

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Lord Paramount
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Need to rewatch.
I'll say this for now: absolutely the craziest episode of the show to date, for better or worse.
Stannis losing everything so quickly. I think his choice to charge in was his own Stannis-y way to suicide, giving up without giving up. It's really tragic. I hate Brienne the plot device, especially if she doesn't end up finding Sansa and Theon. And the way that scene with the tower was shot, symbolically, I think Brienne missed her opportunity.
Dany and Meereen was great. Arya was amazing. Jon I didn't like, the stabbing makes no sense after Thorne let Jon and the Wildlings pass through the Wall. If Thorne wasn't involved, maybe I'd have bought it. In the books there was the whole deal with Ramsay sending Jon a threat and that was the trigger to the assassination.
Dorne is still a huge missed opportunity, but it feels right for Myrcella to die now. Ellaria is a stupid bitch, though. She fucked Trystane hard.
Cersei's scenes were some of the best in the show.

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jentario wrote:

 Jon I didn't like, the stabbing makes no sense after Thorne let Jon and the Wildlings pass through the Wall. If Thorne wasn't involved, maybe I'd have bought it. In the books there was the whole deal with Ramsay sending Jon a threat and that was the trigger to the assassination.


 I do agree that there should've been a trigger, maybe have Jon order the watch to seal the tunnels like he requested in season 4, that could've been the last straw and triggered the mutiny. 



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jentario wrote:

 Jon I didn't like, the stabbing makes no sense after Thorne let Jon and the Wildlings pass through the Wall.


 But I thought it was obvious why Thorne let them pass - I don't think he wanted to risk another attack, not with so many wildlings gathered outside their gates with no where else to go but forward, a giant *and* Jon who knew all of their defences. If they would have betrayed him then and kept their gate shut, what was to stop Jon from leading another attack on the Wall?

But now that Jon was left all alone, the stabbing comes both as a way of preventing him from getting the Watch future involved with the wildlings and possibly Stannis and the Boltons, but also as punishment for his supposed treason. 



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Macha wrote:
But now that Jon was left all alone, the stabbing comes both as a way of preventing him from getting the Watch future involved with the wildlings and possibly Stannis and the Boltons, but also as punishment for his supposed treason. 

 Did they stop and think what the repercussions might be? Now there are a few thousand Wildlings on the OTHER side of the wall, with only the flimsy walls of Castle black to defend them.

The wildlings and their new leader Tormund are very thankful that Jon came back to save them at Hardhome, when they hear he has been murdered in cold blood, what will stop them from wiping out the remaining skeleton crew of the NW?

facepalm



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That's kind of what I was hoping for, Donnie. There's no reason not to take out Castle Black and at least take what food, weapons, horses, wagons and other resources they can for their journey south. Not a great place to spend the winter, but a great place to go shopping!

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Black as Snow wrote:

Not a great place to spend the winter, but a great place to go shopping!


 teeheebiggrin



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LOL.

I don't think the NW expect the wildlings to have that much devotion to Jon (frankly, neither do I) and come back to avenge him. He helped them get to safety, but he also wanted them to fight with him when the time comes. It would be a nice surprise if Tormund comes back to kick their asses, but I think the wildlings now have other things on their mind.
Plus, I think the best way for the show to deal with Throne and Co. is to let them be the first to fall when the WW attack. I just hope Edd gets out of harm's way in time.

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Macha wrote:

Plus, I think the best way for the show to deal with Throne and Co. is to let them be the first to fall when the WW attack. I just hope Edd gets out of harm's way in time.


 

Edd, Davos and WunWun! The 3 Stooges! bonk



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I feel like there are a hundred examples of triggers that could have made the final scene work better. Ramsay's letter from the books, Don's great suggestion of collapsing the tunnel (it makes too much sense, since after the Wildlings passed there's no reason to keep it open), or even just a simple short scene to show the new atmosphere at the Wall when a Wildling gets into a fight with a Night's Watchman. The episode was too jam-packed as is, I know, but I feel like sonething was missing.

Rewatch today

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Okay, on rewatch I think this was my favorite episode of the entire show. And I don't think I'm overreacting. The pacing wasn't too crazy like I thought originally, it flowed nicely. My only real gripe was the Jon scene, and it's more that I don't like how the scene was set up not how it was shot or written. And the Walk of Shame was just the show's best scene ever. So yeah, 10/10. This episode elevated the whole season.

And yeah, this is my favorite season. I know everyone disagrees with me, but fuck everyone. I'm extremely worried for season 6, though. It'll all be so different now...

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It's my third favourite season, but I agree this episode was fantastic. Definitely top 10 for me, despite it's flaws.

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I agree with Don and Basi on the wildling issue. Sure they don't owe allegiance to Jon but on the other hand they hate the crows just as much as the NW hates them. They also know they burnt Mance (and we saw that some are quite devoted to the idea of revenge!) and to top it all off Jon was the one who promised them the Gift to settle! By show of hands how many think Ser Aliser will honor that agreement?!

What I'm saying is that logically taking out 50 NW with their thousands (assuming that's how much they are after Hardhome ones meet the older contingent) is making more sense after Jon's death. That way the wildlings don't have to look over their shoulder when they settle in the Gift. And it's not like Sannis is there to reinforce the Night's Watch command over the Wall and CB and the North in general.



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Sunday 21st of June 2015 08:51:44 AM

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jentario wrote:

And yeah, this is my favorite season. I know everyone disagrees with me, but fuck everyone. I'm extremely worried for season 6, though. It'll all be so different now...


 Actually, other than Dorne, it was all around very solid. Especially since it was based on the two worst pooks of the bunch, D&D did a masterful job.



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jentario wrote:

Okay, on rewatch I think this was my favorite episode of the entire show. And I don't think I'm overreacting. The pacing wasn't too crazy like I thought originally, it flowed nicely. My only real gripe was the Jon scene, and it's more that I don't like how the scene was set up not how it was shot or written. And the Walk of Shame was just the show's best scene ever. So yeah, 10/10. This episode elevated the whole season.

And yeah, this is my favorite season. I know everyone disagrees with me, but fuck everyone. I'm extremely worried for season 6, though. It'll all be so different now...


 I have yet to declare. But I'm agreeing about this being my favorite season. 



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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
Macha wrote:

Plus, I think the best way for the show to deal with Throne and Co. is to let them be the first to fall when the WW attack. I just hope Edd gets out of harm's way in time.


 

Edd, Davos and WunWun! The 3 Stooges! bonk


 Do you know there is an actual homage to The Three Stooges in the books? Because GURM sucks, that's why.



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I heard that.

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TormundsWoman wrote:

on was the one who promised them the Gift to settle! By show of hands how many think Ser Aliser will honor that agreement?!


 I don't really think there is anything to honor anymore at this point. Even if he likes it or not, Thorne doesn't have the manpower to mess with the wildlings settling in. He will not fight them because he simply can't. The one thing he could do is to alert all the norther houses and lie about the terms of the settlement. If the northern lords think they're dealing with a wildling invasion, they might retaliate, but with the coming winter I kinda doubt they will do that much damage even if they try. 

But Thorne's position is fucked either way. Say he writes for aid, telling everyone the wildlings have no business being in the Gift. What credibility does he have? The NW couldn't keep their most basic vow, to defend the realm from the invaders, and add to that a young Lord Commander dying in suspicious circumstances. No one will believe him. 

At this point, I think the NW will end up fighting among themselves and fall very quickly, one way or the other. Jon must still have some men that re loyal to him, and Thorne won't be able to keep things going for long. This, assuming Jon doesn't come back and kill every last one of his...well, killers. 

And if I were to take a wild guess, I see Tormund and his people forming an alliance with at least one of the northern houses, for their mutual benefit. He knows his people can't raid villages anymore, they have to find a way to keep the land they were offered, now that Jon is gone. 



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